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FAZ: «Για τον έλεγχο της Θεσσαλονίκης»

Posted by IGOR στο Φεβρουαρίου 10, 2018


Οι παράλογοι φόβοι της Ελλάδας έναντι της ΠΓΔΜ έχουν ιστορικό πυρήνα, σημειώνει η Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung σε άρθρο που τιτλοφορείται «Για τον έλεγχο της Θεσσαλονίκης».

Η γερμανική εφημερίδα παρατηρεί ότι «η διένεξη για το ζήτημα της ονομασίας επανήλθε στην επικαιρότητα, κυρίως λόγω των σχεδίων της Ουάσιγκτον να επιλύσει το ζήτημα μέχρι τη σύνοδο κορυφής του ΝΑΤΟ στα μέσα Ιουλίου στις Βρυξέλλες. (…) Η Ελλάδα αιτιολογεί το βέτο στην ένταξη της ΠΓΔΜ στο ΝΑΤΟ επικαλούμενη απειλές κατά της εδαφικής της κυριαρχίας. Υποστηρίζει ότι τα Σκόπια διεκδικούν την Μακεδονία και την Θεσσαλονίκη ενδεχομένως και από κοινού με την Βουλγαρία. (…)

Υπάρχουν ιστορικοί λόγοι που εξηγούν τους φόβους των Ελλήνων. Οι φόβοι είναι μεν παρωχημένοι, ενδείκνυνται ωστόσο για μαζικές κινητοποιήσεις με το σύνθημα «η Μακεδονία είναι δική μας». Από το 1912 μέχρι το 1949 υπήρξαν πράγματι αρκετές προσπάθειες σλαβικών βαλκανικών λαών να πάρουν από τους Έλληνες την Μακεδονία και την Θεσσαλονίκη. Όταν το 1912 Μαυροβούνιοι, Σέρβοι, Βούλγαροι και Έλληνες εκδίωξαν τους Οθωμανούς από την Ευρώπη, η Θεσσαλονίκη αποτελούσε τρόπαιο στον αγώνα δρόμου για τη μοιρασιά των εδαφών. Εκτός από τους Έλληνες ήταν κυρίως οι Βούλγαροι εκείνοι που είχαν βλέψεις για την πόλη που οι Σλάβοι ονομάζουν Solun. Όμως οι βουλγαρικές δυνάμεις έφθασαν οκτώ ώρες μετά τον ελληνικό στρατό στη Θεσσαλονίκη. Η διαφορά μεταξύ Θεσσαλονίκης και Solun κρίθηκε δηλαδή κατά κάποιο τρόπο μέσα σε οκτώ μόλις ώρες».

Η FAZ αναφέρεται στη συνέχεια στην δέσμευση του Αδόλφου Χίτλερ έναντι του γιουγκοσλάβου πρίγκιπα Παύλου για παραχώρηση της Θεσσαλονίκης μετά το τέλος του πολέμου ως αντάλλαγμα για τη χρήση του εδάφους της στην επίθεση κατά της Ελλάδας, αλλά και τις προσπάθειες της τότε βουλγαρικής ηγεσίας να διασφαλίσει τη Θράκη. Και η γερμανική εφημερίδα καταλήγει: «Στον ελληνικό εμφύλιο ο Γιουγκοσλάβος ηγέτης Τίτο στήριξε τους κομμουνιστές αντάρτες. Και επειδή στον πληθυσμό της Μακεδονίας υπήρχε σημαντικός αριθμός σλαβοφώνων δημιουργήθηκαν μεταξύ των κομμουνιστών, ομάδες ενόπλων που ζητούσαν την προσάρτηση της Μακεδονίας στην Βουλγαρία ή την Γιουγκοσλαβία. (…) Μπορεί αυτές οι λεπτομέρειες να μην γνωστές σε πολλούς στην Ελλάδα. Οι Έλληνες γνωρίζουν ωστόσο καλά ότι οι Σλάβοι γείτονές τους έχουν προσπαθήσει πολλές φορές να καταλάβουν την Θεσσαλονίκη». (…)

17 Σχόλια to “FAZ: «Για τον έλεγχο της Θεσσαλονίκης»”

  1. HELLAS said

    ΧΙΤΛΕΡ ΝΑΖΙ ΚΟΜΜΟΥΝΙΣΤΕΣ ΕΛΛΗΝΟΦΩΝΟΙ ΒΟΥΛΓΑΡΟΙ ΣΛΑΒΟΙ ΟΛΟΙ ΜΑΖΙ ΤΟ ΟΜΟΛΟΓΟΥΝ ΤΑ ΓΕΡΜΑΝΑ ΜΟΝΑ ΤΟΥΣ
    ΚΑΙ ΠΑΝΩ ΑΠΟ ΟΛΑ Η ΑΜΕΡΙΚΗ

    Μου αρέσει!

    • ΙΣΤΟΡΙΚΑ ΔΕΔΟΜΕΝΑ, όπως καταγράφονται στην Αρχαία Ελληνική Γραμματεία μας: said

      Ούτε οι Μακεδόνες ήταν Έλληνες, ούτε Φιλέλληνες, ούτε η Μακεδονία, ποτέ, γη Ελληνική…. και το ήξεραν πολύ καλά ΟΛΟΙ οι αρχαίοι ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ προγονοί μας, όπως αποδεικνύεται απ’ ΟΛΑ τα γραπτά τους !!!!!!! Και, βεβαίως, δεν έχει, ούτε ένας από σας το κουράγιο να διαβάζει την αρχαία γραμματεία περί του θέματος!!! Ούτε να με διαψεύσει (που δεν γίνεται, αυτή είναι η ιστορική αλήθεια), ούτε να διορθώσει την δική του παραχάραξη τής ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗΣ ιστορίας!
      Παραδείγματος χάριν:
      «καὶ καθ᾽ ἕν᾽ οὑτωσὶ περικόπτειν καὶ λωποδυτεῖν τῶν Ἑλλήνων, καὶ καταδουλοῦσθαι τὰς πόλεις ἐπιόντα….. ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὑπὲρ Φιλίππου καὶ ὧν ἐκεῖνος πράττει νῦν, οὐχ οὕτως ἔχουσιν, οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ᾽ ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι.» –Δημοσθένης

      «ὁ δὲ τὸν μὲν τόπον τὸν Ἑλληνικὸν ὅλως εἴασε, τὴν δ᾽ ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ βασιλείαν κατασχεῖν ἐπεθύμησεν: ἠπίστατο γὰρ τοὺς μὲν Ἕλληνας οὐκ εἰθισμένους ὑπομένειν τὰς μοναρχίας, τοὺς δ᾽ ἄλλους οὐ δυναμένους ἄνευ τῆς τοιαύτης δυναστείας διοικεῖν τὸν βίον τὸν σφέτερον αὐτῶν. «– Ἰσοκράτης

      «τούτους μὲν δὴ ἐνταῦθα, τῷ δὲ ἐν Δωδώνῃ Διὶ Μακεδόνων ἀνέθηκεν αὐτῶν τὰς ἀσπίδας. ἐπιγέγραπται δὲ καὶ ταύταις:“αἵδε ποτ᾽ Ἀσίδα γαῖαν ἐπόρθησαν πολύχρυσον,
      αἵδε καὶ Ἕλλασιν δουλοσύναν ἔπορον.
      νῦν δὲ Διὸς ναῶ ποτὶ κίονας ὀρφανὰ κεῖται
      τᾶς μεγαλαυχήτω σκῦλα Μακεδονίας.» – Παυσανίας

      «διεδέξατο παρ᾽ αὐτοῦ τὴν ἀρχὴν Ἀλέξανδρος. οὗτος πάλιν ὑπολαβὼν βραχύ τι τῆς Ἑλλάδος ἔναυσμα καταλείπεσθαι περὶ τὴν Θηβαίων πόλιν, τίνα τρόπον αὐτὴν διέφθειρε, πάντας ὑμᾶς οἴομαι κατανοεῖν…. οὐδεὶς γάρ ἐστι τῶν ὄντων οὕτως ἀπράγμων ὃς οὐχὶ πέπυσται πῶς Ἀντίπατρος μὲν ἐν τῇ περὶ Λαμίαν μάχῃ νικήσας τοὺς Ἕλληνας κάκιστα μὲν ἐχρήσατο τοῖς ταλαιπώροις Ἀθηναίοις, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις, [3] εἰς τοῦτο δ᾽ ὕβρεως ἦλθε καὶ παρανομίας ὡς φυγαδοθήρας καταστήσας ἐξέπεμψε πρὸς τὰς πόλεις ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀντειρηκότας ἢ καθόλου λελυπηκότας τι τὴν Μακεδόνων οἰκίαν. [4] ὧν οἱ μὲν ἐκ τῶν ἱερῶν ἀγόμενοι μετὰ βίας, οἱ δ᾽ ἀπὸ τῶν βωμῶν ἀποσπώμενοι, μετὰ τιμωρίας ἀπέθνησκον» — Πολύβιος

      » ὅμως εἴπού τι πρὸς ἓν οἱ νόμοι βλέπουσι, τοῦ κρατεῖν στοχάζονται πάντες, ὥσπερ ἐνΛακεδαίμονι καὶ Κρήτῃ πρὸς τοὺς πολέμους συντέτακται σχεδὸν ἥ τε παιδείακαὶ τὸ τῶν νόμων πλῆθος: ἔτι δ᾽ ἐν [10] τοῖς ἔθνεσι πᾶσι τοῖς δυναμένοιςπλεονεκτεῖν ἡ τοιαύτη τετίμηται δύναμις, οἷον ἐν Σκύθαις καὶ Πέρσαις καὶΘρᾳξὶ καὶ Κελτοῖς. ἐν ἐνίοις γὰρ καὶ νόμοι τινές εἰσι παροξύνοντες πρὸς τὴνἀρετὴν ταύτην, καθάπερ ἐν Καρχηδόνι φασὶ τὸν ἐκ τῶν κρίκων κόσμονλαμβάνειν ὅσας ἂν στρατεύσωνται [15] στρατείας: ἦν δέ ποτε καὶ περὶΜακεδονίαν νόμος τὸν μηθένα ἀπεκταγκότα πολέμιον ἄνδρα περιεζῶσθαι τὴνφορβειάν: ἐν δὲ Σκύθαις οὐκ ἐξῆν πίνειν ἐν ἑορτῇ τινι σκύφον περιφερόμενοντῷ μηθένα ἀπεκταγκότι πολέμιον » — Αριστοτέλης

      Ο δειλός φανατικός φασίστας χύνει μελανί να ξεφύγει από την έρευνα. Οι ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ποτέ δεν ήταν δειλοί φανατικοί φασίστες!!!.

      Πόσο πέσατε! Πόσο ατιμάζετε τούς προγόνους μάς -τον Σωκράτη, τον Λεωνίδα- όταν αν ένας Έλληνας έχει το θάρρος να ερευνά την αλήθεια αμερόληπτος (και έτσι τιμάει τους αρχαίους Έλληνες προγόνους του, που γέννησαν την λογική και την έρευνα) … τον αποκαλείτε «προδότης»

      ….. και αυτός ο φοβητσιάρης που επαναλαμβάνει αμάσητα τα κοινά λεγόμενα ΑΝΘΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ ΨΕΜΑΤΑ τον αποκαλείτε «πατριώτης».

      Ο κάθε ξένος που διαφέρει από την αμελέτητη παραχαράκτοπλασμενη (Π)ιστορία σας είναι αμαθής, εσφαλμένος, πράκτορας, ή ανύπαρκτος!

      ….. και ο καθένας που συμφωνεί στα ανιστόρητα, μέγας ιδιοφυής και παντογνώστης.

      Στο μεταξύ, χρησμοπιειται τα ψέματα του (ΑΝΘΕΛΛΗΝΑ) Φάλλμειερ ως ιστορικά δεδομένα να δικαιολογείται γιατί αποκαλείτε τούς ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΕΣ/Σκοπιανούς (ένας λαός όσο αυτόχθων ως ο δικός μάς, αν και βάρβαρο) ως Σλαβικός πληθυσμός. Και δεν σας πειράζει που αυτή την κοσμοθεωρία του Φάλλμειερ, που έχεις κάνη παντιέρα, ψευδολογεί ότι εμείς οι Έλληνες επίσης είμαστε Σλάβους!!! ΝΤΡΟΠΗ ΣΑΣ!!!!

      Μου αρέσει!

      • HELLAS said

        ΧΑΧΙΧΙΧΙΟΧΟΧ
        Ο ΔΗΜΟΣΘΕΝΗΣ
        ΣΑΝ ΝΑ ΛΕΜΕ Ο ΜΠΟΥΤΑΡΗΣ ΤΗΣ ΤΟΤΕ ΕΠΟΧΗΣ

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Ἰωάννης said

        Να. όλη η βρωμιά της πολιτικής «ταυτότητας»

        https://www.hrw.org/report/1994/04/01/denying-ethnic-identity/macedonians-greece
        http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/pdfs/g/greece/greece945.pdf

        Μου αρέσει!

      • T( said

        Στους Ολυμπιακούς αγώνες μόνο Έλληνες γίνονταν δεκτοί (Αρχέλαος Α΄, Φίλιππος Β΄, Κλίτων, κλπ.
        Όσο για τους δημαγωγούς στους οποίους αναφέρεσαι, θυμήσου πως όταν η κυριαρχία έφευγε από τα χέρια μιας ελίτ προς τα χέρια άλλης και μάλιστα μετά από μάχες, τότε οι ηττημένοι έβγαζαν ωμό μίσος και προσπαθούσαν να συκοφαντήσουν τους κατακτητές τους, μη μπορώντας να δεχθούν (δεν συνέφερε την άρχουσα τάξη) το διαφορετικό διοικητικό σύστημα των Μακεδόνων που διέφεραι από αυτό των Θεσσαλών ή των Αθηναίων, κλπ, παραδείγματος χάριν.
        Ούτως ή άλλως, υπάρχουν τόσοι άλλοι που αναφέρονται στους Μακεδόνες ως Έλληνες, οπότε τί να γράφω… Ξεχνάς επίσης την ίδια γλώσσα, θρησκεία, άλλωστε και το ίδιο το όνομα της Μακεδονίας, του Φιλίππου, του Αλεξάνδρου, Αντιγόνου, Αριστοτέλη, Θεσσαλονίκη, Ολυμπιάς… είναι Ελληνικά!!!!
        Πρακτόρια τού Sόρος, go home!

        Αρέσει σε 1 άτομο

      • © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said

        T( said
        + Ούτως ή άλλως, υπάρχουν τόσοι άλλοι που αναφέρονται στους Μακεδόνες ως ΈΛληνες, οπότε τί να γράφω… Ξεχνάς επίσης την ίδια γλώσσα, θρησκεία, άλλωστε και το ίδιο το όνομα της Μακεδονίας, του Φιλίππου, του Αλεξάνδρου, Αντιγόνου, ΑριστοτΕΛη, Θεσσαλονίκη, Ολυμπιάς… είναι ΕΛληνικά !!!!

        Μου αρέσει!

    • πω πω πωωωω said

      Ας είμαστε σαφείς.

      Ο φασισμός δεν είναι απλός να πιστεύεις αυτό που σου γουστάρει. Φασισμός είναι να υπαγορεύεις στους άλλους τι να πιστεύουν για τον εαυτό τους.

      Δεν ήρθαν οι Σκοπιανοί στο ΟΗΕ να μας αναγκάζουν να μην χρησιμοποιήσουμε την λέξη «Μακεδονία» για μέρος της Ελλάδος. Ήταν ΕΜΕΙΣ το 1991 που υπαγορεύσαμε σε μια ΑΛΛΗ ΧΩΡΑ την ταυτότητά της, και όταν δεν λύγισε αμέσως, την τιμωρήσαμε με εμπάργκο!!!

      Ποιοι συμπεριφέρθηκαν σαν Ναζιστές, Ε;

      Μου αρέσει!

    • © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said

      © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said Φεβρουαρίου 11, 2018 στις 12:43 πμ
      ….Ούτε οι Μακεδόνες ήταν ΈΛληνες.
      Μάστα!

      Άκου βλακάκο:
      Πριν ξεκινήσεις τις παρόλες σου κάλλιον το να πληροφορηθείς κάποια πράγματα,
      όχι για άλλο λόγο,
      παρά για να μην εκτίθεσαι χάνοντας ό,ποια αξιοπιστία (…για την οποίαν à propos κρίνω ότι δεν…)… διαθέτεις.
      Κρίνεσαι από χέρι καμμένο χαρτί όταν ξεκινάς γράφοντας το παραπάνω.
      Φυσικά για να κατανοήσεις χρειάζεται περαιτέρω γνώση για την οποίαν κρίνω επίσης,
      απ΄ ότι φαίνεται πως δεν διαθέτεις.

      Πάμε Ιστορικά.
      Τι υπάρχει, τι έχει καταγραφεί.
      Ο Ηρόδοτος λέει: —» Της μεν πρότερον ΕΛΛΑΣ ΠΕΛασγίοι καλεομένης».
      Τι σημαίνει αυτό;
      Οι ΠΕΛασγοί πρόγονοί μας ανάλογα με την εγκατάσταση στην πατρώα γη πήρανε έτι περαιτέρω διευκρινιστικότερα ονόματα ώστε να διευκολύνονται στις συνεννοήσεις τους.
      Σαν όπως λέμε σήμερα Κρητικός, Πελοποννήσιος, Κυκλαδίτης ή Θραξ, Ηπειρώτης, Μακεδών κτλ έτσι λοιπόν τότε αντίστοιχα υπήρξαν οι Μολοσσοί (ήσαν στην Ήπειρο), Μυκηναίοι, Μακεδόνες, Θράκες, Ιλλυριοί κτλ για να μην μπούμε στην διαδικασία των Δωριαίων, Ιώνων, ενώ υπήρξαν Αιολείς, Αχαιοί μα & προ αυτών όλων όπως π.χ. των Δαναών, Λυκίων κτλ.
      Απ ότι βλέπεις μπετοβλακάκο υπάρχει μιά διαδοχική αρμονική συμμετοχή και φυσικά συνέχεια.
      Πώς από αυτή κυρίως πού βλέπεις ότι απουσιάζουν οι ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΕΣ ώστε να τους διαγράφεις από την Ιστορική συνέχεια των ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ, κομμάτι της οποίας και τμήμα αδιαίρετον αποτΕΛούσαν ανέκαθεν οι ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ.
      Μα πόσο βλάκας;
      Πόθεν δηλαδή εσύ εξήγαγες του συμπέρασμα σου;
      Με άριστα το δέκα -10- στην ανοησία εσύ το ξεπέρασες.
      Πήρες 11- ΙΙ.
      Άντε βοήθειά σου.

      Μου αρέσει!

      Απάντηση

      — (πλην- μείον). Ούτε οι Μακεδόνες ήταν Έλληνες……
      Τάδε έφη βλακάκος ακούων στα ακόλουθα:

      ΙΣΤΟΡΙΚΑ ΔΕΔΟΜΕΝΑ, Όπως Καταγράφονται Στην Αρχαία ΕΛληνική Γραμματεία Μας: said
      Φεβρουαρίου 10, 2018 στις 10:08 μμ

      Αρέσει σε 1 άτομο

    • ΙΣΤΟΡΙΚΑ ΔΕΔΟΜΕΝΑ, Όπως Καταγράφονται Στην Αρχαία ΕΛληνική Γραμματεία Μας said

      Όχι, ρε αμαθέστατοι.

      Ο Φίλιππος Β στον οποίον αναφέρεσαι, ήταν σίγουρος βάρβαρος, τύραννος, εισβολέας, υποδουλωτής του έθνους μας, και ο καταστροφέας της Ελλάδος.

      Αν ήταν επίσης και απατεώνας, ποιος ξέρει! Παντοτε, δεν θα χρεαιζοταν να λοιδορήσει ΚΑΝΕΝΑΣ από τούς Ελλανοδικαστές να στεφανωθεί ολυμπιονίκης, ένας βάρβαρος εν απουσία!!! Ναι, το διάβασες σωστός.

      » ἐγεννήθη δ᾽ οὖν Ἀλέξανδρος ἱσταμένου μηνὸς Ἑκατομβαιῶνος, ὃν Μακεδόνες Λῷον καλοῦσιν, ἕκτῃ, καθ᾽ ἣν ἡμέραν … Φιλίππῳ δὲ ἄρτι Ποτείδαιαν ᾑρηκότι τρεῖς ἧκον ἀγγελίαι κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν χρόνον ἡ μὲν Ἰλλυριοὺς ἡττᾶσθαι μάχῃ μεγάλῃ διὰ Παρμενίωνος, ἡ δὲ Ὀλυμπίασιν ἵππῳ κέλητι νενικηκέναι, τρίτη δὲ περὶ τῆς Ἀλεξάνδρου γενέσεως » -Πλούταρχος

      Αυτός ο Βάρβαρος τύραννος ΔΕΝ πάτησε πόδι στο Ολυμπιακό στάδιο!! Δεν αγωνιστικέ προσωπικά.

      Ήταν χορηγός ενός άρματος (με άρρεν Έλληνας ως ηνίοχος), και οπός όλοι ξέρουμε, στην Ολυμπιακή αμαξοστοιχία, ήταν ο χορηγός, και όχι ο ηνίοχος, που στεφανώθηκε για την νίκη.

      Με αυτό τον τρόπο, πολλές αρχαίες Έλληνιδες (που ήταν απαγορευμένες – με ποινή θανάτου – από τα Ολυμπιακά) στεφανωθήκαν ολυμπιονίκες, όπως και επίσης ορισμένοι Ρωμαίοι (Βάρβαροι) Αυτοκράτορες, μαζί μεν τον ΑΝΘΕΛΛΗΝΑ Φίλιππος.

      Και τώρα που διαβάζουμε τον Πλούταρχο. Να, και μια άλλη απόδειξη για την μη-Ελληνική γλωσσά των Μακεδόνων: Στα Ελληνικά, ο μήνας λέγεται Ἑκατομβαιῶνος. Στα Μακεδονικά, ο μήνας λέγεται Λῷον. Καμιά γλωσσική συγγένεια!!!

      Το κατάλαβες, τελικά; Ή είσαι πιο φανατικός και χαζός από ότι περίμενα;

      Μου αρέσει!

  2. © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said

    + Οι ΈΛληνες (ιδιαίτερα οι Μακεδόνες) γνωρίζουν ωστόσο καλά ότι οι Σλάβοι γείτονές τους έχουν προσπαθήσει πολλές φορές να καταλάβουν την Θεσσαλονίκη»……ενώ από πάντα την εποφθαλμιούν.

    Αρέσει σε 1 άτομο

    • Chris, A Pureblooded Greek said

      Ok, XRISTO. Since you «know» so well, how about providing somne proof besides your frenzied faith?????

      STILL WAITING FOR ANY!!! OF YOU TO PROVIDE ANY!!!! ORIGINAL HISTORICAL

      ANCIENT TEXTS THAT IN ANY WAY SUPPPORT THE HISTORICITY OF THE «GREEK»

      MACEDONIA. I ASSUME OF THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO CARE ENOUGH TO GO TO A

      DEMONSTRATION AT LEAST A PERCENT WILL BROWSE THIS SITE.

      I ASSUME OF YOU THOUSANDS AT LEASE A TENTH OF A PERCENT HAVE SOME!!!!!!

      HISTORICAL BACKING FOR YOUR HISTORICAL POSITION.

      IF YOU CARE AT ALL FOR GREECE, PLEASE SHARE IT!!!!!!! TIME IS SHORT SO I

      WILL ASK AGAIN UNTIL AN ANSWER IS FOUND BECAUSE I RATHER DEAL WITH YOUR

      HOLSTILITY THAN BE FORCED TO CONCLUDE FROM OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT

      MACEDONIA WAS NEVER GREEK AT ALL.

      DONT TELL ME I DIDNT DO MY HOMEWORK. A FRACTION OF IT IS BELOW.

      I HAVE READ EVERY ANCIENT GREEK WRITER I CAN FIND AND NONE!!!!!!! SUPPORT

      MACEDONIA EVER BEING GREEK. NOR DOES ANY PRE-1910S MODERN HISTORIAN. NOR

      DOES KARAGATSIS WHOSE GREEK HISTORY BOOK WAS BANNED BY THE GOVT.

      MODERN BLOGS ARE USELESS UNLESS THEY HAVE ANCIENT WRITERS AS SOURCES. YOUR

      HYSTERIA AND EMAILED GRAPHIC DEATH-THREATS ARE NOT OF BENEFIT TO MOTHER

      GREECE NOR DO THEY PROVE ANYTHING, EXCEPT THAT YOU LACK THE CAPACTY FOR A

      CIVIL DISCSSION.

      IF YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANY OF WHAT YOU CLAIM, TAKE THE TIME TO POST

      SOURCED HISTORICAL INFORMATION

      WHICH SOMEONE OF YOU MUST HAVE TO BE SO VIOLENTLY INSISTENT!!!!!.

      A LITTLE OF MY HOMEWORK, just so you cannot accuse me of lying, as you do so

      frequently

      (probaby more than you read in your lifetimes?????):

      ARISTOLE (Thx 2 a fellow blogger. Verified in Aristotle Politics):
      «in Sparta and Crete both the system of education and the mass of the laws

      are framed in

      the main with a view to war; and also among all the nations that are strong

      enough to

      expand at the expense of others, military strength has been held in honor,

      for example,

      among the Scythians, Persians, Thracians and Celts. Indeed among some

      peoples there are

      even certain laws stimulating military valor; for instance at Carthage, we

      are told,

      warriors receive the decoration of armlets of the same number as the

      campaigns on which

      they have served; and at one time there was also a law in Macedonia that a

      man who had

      never killed an enemy must wear his halter instead of a belt. Among Scythian

      tribes at a

      certain festival a cup was carried round from which a man that had not

      killed an enemy was

      not allowed to drink. Among the Iberians, a warlike race, they fix small

      spits in the earth

      round a man’s grave corresponding in number to the enemies he has killed. So

      with other

      races there are many other practices of a similar kind, some established by

      law and others

      by custom.» Macedonians are listed among foreign RACES not Greek Poleis. Its

      Scythians

      Thracians, Persans, Macedonians, Celts: NATIONS. NOT Crete, Sparta,

      Macedonia: Poleis

      ********************************************************

      HERODOTUS:
      » Then Amyntas answered- «O, Persians! we have no such custom as this;
      but with us men and women are kept apart. Nevertheless, since you,
      who are our lords, wish it, this also shall be granted to you.»
      »
      But sex-segregation was not practiced by the Greeks afaik, ex, the

      symposiums. Amyntas is

      the Macedonian king

      «For when Alexander wished to contend in the games,
      and had come to Olympia with no other view, the Greeks who were about
      to run against him would have excluded him from the contest- saying
      that Greeks only were allowed to contend, and not barbarians. But
      Alexander proved himself to be an Argive, and was distinctly adjudged
      a Greek; after which he entered the lists for the foot-race, and was
      drawn to run in the first pair.» But why would a Macedonian be suspected of

      not being a

      Greek (Barbaros) if Macedonia was unequivocally Greek? Can anyone PLEASE

      cite for me a case

      where a Spartan or Theban etc was suspect like this?

      » No sooner therefore did he reach Sardis with
      the Paeonians than he said to Darius, «What mad thing is this that
      thou hast done, sire, to let a Greek, a wise man and a shrewd, get
      hold of a town in Thrace, a place too where there is abundance of
      timber fit for shipbuilding, and oars in plenty, and mines of silver,
      » But if Thrace was Greek, how can a Greek getting hold of a town in it be

      noteworthy?

      » they, being Thessalians, were the first
      of the Hellenes who gave themselves over to the king; for Xerxes
      thought that they offered him friendship on behalf of their whole
      nation.» Never mind the ‘friendship’ offered him by the Macedonians a page

      earlier.

      Xerxes bridged the Hellespont. What did he do? Fly over Epirus, Thrace and

      Macedonia?

      » Mardonios having read that which the Oracles uttered, whatever
      that was, after this sent as an envoy to Athens Alexander the son of
      Amyntas, the Macedonian,…. Now of this Alexander the seventh ancestor[108]

      was that
      Perdiccas who first became despot of the Macedonians, and that in the
      manner which here follows:–From Argos there fled to the Illyrians
      three brothers of the descendents of Temenos, Gauanes, Aëropos, and
      Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of
      Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia. There they became farmservants
      for pay in the household of the king, one pasturing horses,
      the second oxen, and the youngest of them, namely Perdiccas, the
      smaller kinds of cattle» So whatever Macedonians are, there are Illyrians

      between them and

      Greece?

      » the envoys from Sparta followed him forthwith and said: «… but let not
      Alexander the Macedonian persuade you, making smooth the speech of
      Mardonios; for these things are fitting for him to do, since being
      himself a despot he is working in league with a despot: for you
      however they are not fitting to do, if ye chance to be rightly minded;
      for ye know that in Barbarians there is neither faith nor truth at
      all.» So whatever Alexander is, Sparta is not impressed. The issue cannot be

      kingship as

      Sparta had kings. Also, why is BarbarianS plural. Mardonius is one, and it

      is from earlier

      in Alexander’s speech a personal offer.

      » And in the future do not thou appear before the Athenians with any such

      proposals as

      these, nor think that thou art rendering them good service in advising them

      to do
      that which is not lawful; for we do not desire that thou shouldest
      suffer anything unpleasant at the hands of the Athenians, who art
      their public guest and friend.» . To Alexander they thus made
      answer, but to the envoys from Sparta as follows: «That the
      Lacedemonians should be afraid lest we should make a treaty with the
      Barbarian was natural no doubt, but it seems to be an unworthy
      fear for … there is the bond of
      Hellenic race, by which we are of one blood and of one speech, the
      common temples of the gods and the common sacrifices, the manners of
      life which are the same for all;» So there is a blood bond with the Spartans

      but the

      Macedonian is just a guest?

      ********************************************************
      STRABO:

      » From Brentesium the sea is traversed by two passages to the opposite

      coast, one crossing

      to the Ceraunian Mountains and the adjacent coasts of the Epirus and Greece,

      the other to

      Epidamnus, which is the longer of the two, being 1800 stadia. Still this is

      habitually

      traversed, on account of the situation of the city being convenient for the

      nations of

      Illyria and Macedonia. » WTF? I’d say he means city-states, but nobody’s

      calling Illyria

      a Greek Polis, and they get the same treatment. So are we saying the nations

      of Greece and

      Italy? or the city-sates of Athens and Sparta? Because it doesn’t make sense

      to say the

      anything of Athens and Italy.

      » At the same time the Romans became masters of Africa, and of such portions

      of Spain as

      they won from the Carthaginians. Both the Greeks and the Macedonians, and

      the nations of

      Asia who dwelt on the hither side of the river Kizil-Irmak and the Taurus,

      took part in

      these struggles with the Carthaginians: » Again, why ‘Macedonians and

      Greeks’? Greek is a

      nationality, its not «Athenian» so isn’t Macedonian another nationality? We

      don’t say

      Athenians and Greeks.
      «There remains to be described that part of Europe included between the

      Danube and the sea

      which surrounds it, beginning from the inner recess of the Adriatic, and

      extending to the

      Sacred mouth of the Danube. This part contains Greece, Macedonia, Epirus,

      and the people

      who live above them, extending to the Danube and to the two seas (the

      Adriatic and the

      Euxine Sea) on each side. On the Adriatic are the Illyrians; on the Euxine

      Sea, as far as

      the Propontis and Hellespont, are the Thracians, and the Scythian or Keltic

      tribes

      intermixed with them. We must begin from the Danube, and treat of the

      countries which

      follow next in order to those already described, that is to say, the parts

      contiguous to

      Italy, the Alps, the Germans, the Dacians, and the Getæ.» Again, not say

      Phocis, Thessaly,

      Macedonia etc, but Greece, Macedonia, Epirus, Illyria, Thrace, Scythia…

      Nations, not

      city-states?
      » People formerly very powerful are extinct, or were reduced to the lowest

      condition, as

      the Boii and Scordisci among the Galatæ; the Autariatæ, Ardiæi, and

      Dardanii, among the

      Illyrians; and the Triballi among the Thracians. They first declined in

      consequence of

      disputes amongst themselves, but were finally prostrated by wars with the

      Macedonians and

      Romans.» Same issue here.
      «These are the nations, bounded by the Danube and by the Illyrian and

      Thracian mountains,

      which are worthy of record. They occupy the whole coast of the Adriatic Sea,

      beginning from

      the recess of the gulf, and the left side, as it is called, of the Euxine

      Sea, from the

      river Danube to Byzantium.
      The southern parts of the above-mentioned mountainous tract, and the

      countries which

      follow, lying below it, remain to be described. Among these are Greece, and

      the contiguous

      barbarous country extending to the mountains» I thought Greece extended to

      the mountains?

      My dad fought insurgents at Vitsi.
      » The country, from the commencement of the Macedonian and Pæonian

      mountains, as far as the

      river Strymon, is inhabited by Macedonians, and Pæones, and some of the

      Thracian mountain

      tribes. But all the country on the other side the Strymon, as far as the

      mouth of the

      Euxine Sea, and Mount Hæmus, belong to the Thracians, except the coast,

      which is occupied

      by Greeks, some of whom are settled on the Propontis, others on the

      Hellespont and on the

      Gulf Melas, and others on the Ægean Sea.» Again Greeks vs Macedonians,

      Thracians, etc.

      Clearly there are Greek colonies on the coast like Amphipolis, but the

      majority of the

      inland population is something else. Also, Athens NEVER made a colony on the

      shores of

      Argos or Corinth Sparta Mesenne Thessaly but they made Olynthus Amphipolis

      and dozens more

      on the coasts of Macedonia Epirus and Thrace. hm. weird.

      » Some say that, in the language of the Molotti and Thesprotæ, old women are

      called

      “peliæ,” and old men “pelii,” …. Among the Thesprotæ and Molotti old women

      are called

      “peliæ,” and old men “pelii,” as among the Macedonians. Persons at least who

      hold office

      are called “peligones,” as among the Laconians and Massilienses they are

      called

      “gerontes.”» Huh, so much for the same language.

      » There are many Greek tribes, but the chief people are equal in number to

      the Greek

      dialects with which we are acquainted, namely, four. Of these, the Ionic is

      the same as the

      ancient Attic; (for Iones was the former name of the inhabitants of Attica;

      from thence

      came the Iones who settled in Asia, and use the dialect now called Ionic;)

      the Doric was

      the same as the Æolic dialect, for all the people on the other side of the

      isthmus except

      the Athenians, the Megareans, and the Dorians about Parnassus, are even now

      called Æolians;

      it is probable that the Dorians, from their being a small nation, and

      occupying a most

      rugged country, and from want of intercourse [with the Æolians], no longer

      resemble that

      people either in language or customs, and, although of the same race, have

      lost all

      appearance of affinity. It was the same with the Athenians, who inhabiting a

      rugged country

      with a light soil, escaped the ravages of invaders. As they always occupied

      the same

      territory, and no enemy attempted to expel them, nor had any desire to take

      possession of

      it themselves, on this account they were, according to Thucydides, regarded

      as

      Autochthones, or an indigenous race. This was probably the reason, although

      they were a

      small nation, why they remained a distinct people with a distinct dialect.
      It was not in the parts only on the other side of the isthmus, that the

      Æolian nation was

      powerful, but those on this side also were formerly Æolians. They were

      afterwards

      intermixed first with Ionians who came from Attica, and got possession of

      Ægialus, and

      secondly with Dorians, who under the conduct of the Heracleidæ founded

      Megara and many of

      the cities in the Peloponnesus. The Iones were soon expelled by the Achæi,

      an Æolian tribe;

      and there remained in Peloponnesus the two nations, the Æolic and the Doric.

      Those nations

      then that had little intercourse with the Dorians used the Æolian dialect.

      (This was the

      case with the Arcadians and Eleians, the former of whom were altogether a

      mountain tribe,

      and did not share in the partition of the Peloponnesus; the latter were

      considered as

      dedicated to the service of the Olympian Jupiter, and lived for a long

      period in peace,

      principally because they were of Æolian descent, and had admitted into their

      country the

      army of Oxylus, about the time of the return of the Heracleidæ.) The rest

      used a kind of

      dialect composed of both, some of them having more, others less, of the

      Æolic dialect. Even

      at present the inhabitants of different cities use different dialects, but

      all seem to

      Dorize, or use the Doric dialect, on account of the ascendency of that

      nation. Such then

      is the number of the Grecian nations» Ok, where are the Macedonians

      Thracians and

      Epirotes?
      » Trœzen is sacred to Neptune, from whom it was formerly called Poseidonia.

      It is situated

      15 stadia from the sea. Nor is this an obscure city. In front of its

      harbour, called Pogon,

      lies Calauria, a small island, of about 30 stadia in compass. Here was a

      temple of Neptune,

      which served as an asylum for fugitives. It is said that this god exchanged

      Delos for

      Calauria with Latona, and Tænarum for Pytho with Apollo. Ephorus mentions

      the oracle

      respecting it:
      “It is the same thing to possess Delos, or Calauria,
      The divine Pytho, or the windy Tænarum.”
      There was a sort of Amphictyonic body to whom the concerns of this temple

      belonged,

      consisting of seven cities, which performed sacrifices in common. These were

      Hermon,

      Epidaurus, Ægina, Athenæ, Prasiæ, Nauplia, and Orchomenus Minyeius. The

      Argives contributed

      in behalf of Nauplia, and the Lacedæmonians in behalf of Prasiæ. The

      veneration for this

      god prevailed so strongly among the Greeks, that the Macedonians, even when

      masters of the

      country, nevertheless preserved even to the present time the privilege of

      the asylum, and

      were restrained by shame from dragging away the suppliants who took refuge

      at Calauria.

      Archias even, with a body of soldiers, did not dare to use force to

      Demosthenes, although

      he had received orders from Antipater to bring him alive, and all other

      orators he could

      find, who were accused of the same crimes. He attempted persuasion, but in

      vain, for

      Demosthenes deprived himself of life by taking poison in the temple.» So

      here is the full

      quote. The Macedonians are NOT among the amphictyony of states venerating

      this temple.

      They do respect the subjects religion, like the Romans with Zoroastrianism,

      but nowhere

      does it say they shared it.

      » Thebans, having vanquished the Lacedæmonians in two battles, disputed the

      sovereignty of

      Greece. Epaminondas, however, was killed, and they were disappointed in

      their hope of

      obtaining this supremacy. … Reduced by this war, and by the Macedonians, at

      the time they

      invaded Greece, they lost their city, which was afterwards restored to them,

      and rebuilt by

      the Macedonians themselves, who had razed it.» So when the Thebans fight

      other Geeks, it

      is a civil war, and attempting to seize sovereignty like a coup, but the

      Macedonians INVADE

      GREECE, FROM OUTSIDE.
      » such are the long tunics, which in tragedies are called Thessalian; they

      are fastened

      about the body with a girdle, and with a clasp on the shoulder. The

      tragedians, for they

      required some additional decoration of this kind, imitate the Thessalians in

      their attire.

      The Thessalians in particular, from wearing a long dress, (probably because

      they inhabit

      the most northerly and the coldest country in all Greece,) afforded the most

      appropriate

      subject of imitation to actors for their theatrical representations. » Again

      just like

      Herodotus, the Thessalians are the north-most of the Greeks. This is a

      problem.
      ******************************************************************

      PLUTARCH
      «Be that as it may, Alexander was born early in the month Hecatombaeon, the

      Macedonian

      name for which is Loüs, on the sixth day of the month, and on this day the

      temple of

      Ephesian Artemis was burnt. » So Macedonians had a different system for

      counting time and

      or language?
      » For it was neither every kind of fame nor fame from every source that he

      courted, as

      Philip did, who plumed himself like a sophist on the power of his oratory,

      and took care to

      have the victories of his chariots at Olympia engraved upon his coins; 10

      nay, when those

      about him inquired whether he would be willing to contend in the foot-race

      at the Olympic

      games, since he was swift of foot, «Yes,» said he, «if I could have kings as

      my

      contestants.» And in general, too, Alexander appears to have been averse to

      the whole race

      of athletes» So according to Plutarch, the Olympics were not good enough for

      the prince.

      Did he actually try to compete?
      » Alexander, though only sixteen years of age… was also present at

      Chaeroneia and took

      part in the battle against the Greeks» This again. Not the other Greeks or

      the Thebans,

      Locrians….. the Greeks.
      » Then Philip rose up against him with drawn sword, but, fortunately for

      both, his anger

      and his wine made him trip and fall. Then Alexander, mocking over him, said:

      «Look now,

      men! here is one who was preparing to cross from Europe into Asia; and he is

      upset in

      trying to cross from couch to couch.» After this drunken broil Alexander

      took Olympias and

      established her in Epirus, while he himself tarried in Illyria.» Ok, even if

      Epirus was

      Greek, why does a Greek tarry in Illyria??
      «Thus it was that at the age of twenty years Alexander received the kingdom,

      which was

      exposed to great jealousies, dire hatreds, and dangers on every hand. For

      the neighboring

      tribes of Barbarians would not tolerate their servitude, and longed for

      their hereditary

      kingdoms; and as for Greece, although Philip had conquered her in the field,

      he had not had

      time enough to make her tame under his yoke, but had merely disturbed and

      changed the

      condition of affairs there, and then left them in a great surge and

      commotion, owing to the

      strangeness of the situation. The Macedonian counselors of Alexander had

      fears of the

      crisis, and thought he should give up the Greek states altogether and use no

      more

      compulsion there, and that he should call the revolting Barbarians back to

      their allegiance

      by mild measures and try to arrest the first symptoms of their revolutions»

      Where to

      start? Philip and Alexander did not ‘Unify’ Greece, they CONQUERED her,

      yoked her. Second,

      Alexander is urged to give up the Greek states, not the ‘Other’ Greek

      states.
      «…on learning that the Thebans had revolted and that the Athenians were in

      sympathy with

      them, he immediately led his forces through the pass of Thermopylae,

      declaring that since

      Demosthenes had called him a boy while he was among the Illyrians and

      Triballians, and a

      stripling when he had reached Thessaly, he wished to show him that before

      the walls of

      Athens he was a man.» As a boy he was in Illiria and Triballia. Hm.
      » But the Thebans made a counter-demand that he should surrender to them

      Philotas and

      Antipater, and made a counter-proclamation that all who wished to help in

      setting Greece

      free should range themselves with them.. and their city was taken,

      plundered, and razed to

      the ground. This was done, in the main, because Alexander expected that the

      Greeks would be

      terrified by so great a disaster and cower down in quiet» Well, nice dude.

      Also, again,

      the Greeks, not the other Greeks.
      » some Thracians broke into the house of Timocleia, a woman of high repute

      and chastity..

      shamefully violated her.. And when the Thracians led her, with hands bound,

      to

      Alexander… and when the king asked her who she was, she replied that she was

      a sister of

      Theagenes, who drew up the forces which fought Philip in behalf of the

      liberty of the

      Greeks, and fell in command at Chaeroneia.» Again, the Greeks, not the other

      Greeks.
      » And now, wishing to consult the god concerning the expedition against

      Asia, he went to

      Delphi; and since he chanced to come on one of the inauspicious days, when

      it is not lawful

      to deliver oracles, in the first place he sent a summons to the prophetess.

      And when she

      refused to perform her office and cited the law in her excuse, he went up

      himself and tried

      to drag her to the temple….» Clearly he respects Hellenic religion a great

      deal. Bull.
      » Many rushed upon Alexander, for he was conspicuous by his buckler and by

      his helmet’s

      crest, on either side of which was fixed a plume of wonderful size and

      whiteness. » Greeks

      had horsehair crests, not big white plumes, afaik.
      » Thaïs, an Athenian… said… it would be a still greater pleasure to go in

      revel rout

      and set fire to the house of the Xerxes who burned Athens, she herself

      kindling the fire

      under the eyes of Alexander, in order that a tradition might prevail among

      men that the

      women in the train of Alexander inflicted a greater punishment upon the

      Persians in behalf

      of Hellas than all her famous commanders by sea and land. » Alexander is not

      counted among

      Hellas’s famous commanders. Hm.
      «However, he said, he allowed those who wished it to go away, calling them

      to witness that

      while he was winning the inhabited world for the Macedonians he had been

      left behind with

      his friends and those who were willing to continue the expedition. This is

      almost word for

      word what he wrote in his letter to Antipater, and….. he chose out thirty

      thousand boys

      and gave orders that they should learn the Greek language and be trained to

      use Macedonian

      weapons, appointing many instructors for this work…. Moreover, when he saw

      that among his

      chiefest friends Hephaestion approved his course and joined him in changing

      his mode of

      life, while Craterus clung fast to his native ways, he employed the former

      in his business

      with the Barbarians, the latter in that with the Greeks and Macedonians. »

      Oh, so it is

      the Greek language and Macedonian weapons, and he’s ‘winning the inhabited

      world for the

      Macedonians.’ not the Greeks. Interesting.
      » Alexander rode up and abused Hephaestion publicly, calling him a fool and

      a madman for

      not knowing that without Alexander’s favour he was nothing; and in private

      he also sharply

      reproved Craterus. Then he brought them together and reconciled them, taking

      an oath by

      Ammon and the rest of the gods that he loved them most of all men; but that

      if he heard of

      their quarreling again, he would kill them both» So he sacrifices to an

      Egyptian god too.

      Are we to think he’s Egyptian now?
      «Do not the Greeks appear to you to walk about among Macedonians like demi-

      gods among wild

      beasts?» … Then Alexander, no longer able to restrain his anger, threw one

      of the apples

      that lay on the table at Cleitus and hit him, and began looking about for

      his sword. But

      one of his body-guards, Aristophanes, conveyed it away before he could lay

      his hands on it,

      and the rest surrounded him and begged him to desist, whereupon he sprang to

      his feet and

      called out in Macedonian speech a summons to his corps of guards» So there’s

      Greek

      Language and Macedonian Speech???

      » Callisthenes … the sophist went about with lofty thoughts as if bent on

      abolishing a

      tyranny, and that the young men flocked to him and followed him… Alexander

      himself, in

      the letters which he wrote at once to Craterus, Attalus, and Alcetas, says

      that the youths

      confessed under torture that they had made this attempt of themselves, and

      that no one else

      was privy to it. But in a letter written later to Antipater, wherein he

      accuses

      Callisthenes also of the crime, he says: «The youths were stoned to death by

      the

      Macedonians, but the sophist I will punish, together with those who sent him

      to me and

      those who harbour in their cities men who conspire against my life;» » Since

      when did

      Greeks kill people by stoning???
      «While Demosthenes was still in exile, Alexander died in Babylon, and the

      Greek states

      combined yet again to form a league against Macedon. Demosthenes attached

      himself to the

      Athenian convoys, and threw all his energies into helping them incite the

      various states to

      attack the Macedonians and drive them out of Greece.» Not back into

      Macedonia… Out of

      Greece. Last I heard, you could drive pestilent Texans back into Texas, not

      out of the US.
      ******************************************************
      THUCYDIDES:
      » Perdiccas, son of Alexander, king of the Macedonians, had from an old

      friend and ally

      been made an enemy. He had been made an enemy by the Athenians entering into

      alliance with

      his brother Philip and Derdas, who were in league against him. In his alarm

      he had sent to

      Lacedaemon to try and involve the Athenians in a war with the

      Peloponnesians, and was

      endeavouring to win over Corinth in order to bring about the revolt of

      Potidaea.» Oh, how

      philhellenic of him.
      «Leaving these two towns to prepare together against the speedy arrival of

      the Athenians,

      Brasidas and Perdiccas started on a second joint expedition into Lyncus

      against Arrhabaeus;

      the latter with the forces of his Macedonian subjects, and a corps of heavy

      infantry

      composed of Hellenes domiciled in the country… . In all there were about

      three thousand

      Hellenic heavy infantry, accompanied by all the Macedonian cavalry.» Again.

      Macedonians and

      (not other) Hellenes. Hm
      **************************************************************
      PAUSANIAS:

      «It was Leosthenes who, at the head of
      the Athenians and all the Greeks, defeated the Macedonians in
      Boeotia and again outside Thermopylae ; and after overpowering
      them shut them up in Lamia, over against Oeta.» All the Greeks vs the

      Maconians. Hm.

      «For the disaster at Chaeronea was the beginning of evil to
      all the Greeks ; and the yoke of slavery which it brought with it
      pressed not least heavily on the states that had held aloof or had
      sided with Macedonia. Most of the cities Philip captured. With
      the Athenians he nominally made a treaty, but in reality he inflicted
      on them the deepest injuries of all, for he wrested islands from them
      and deposed them from the empire of the sea. For a time the
      Athenians kept quiet during the reign of Philip and afterwards of
      Alexander. But when Alexander died and the Macedonians chose
      Aridaeus king, though the whole government was vested in Anti-
      pater, the Athenians could no longer brook the thought that Greece
      should for ever be at the feet of Macedonia ; so they were bent on
      war and stirred up others to action. 4. The cities that joined them 4
      were these : in Peloponnese there were Argos, Epidaurus, Sicyon,
      Troezen, Elis, Phlius, Messene ; outside the Isthmus of Corinth
      there were the Locrians, Phocians, Thessalians, Carystians, and the
      Acarnanians who belonged to the Aetolian League…»

      » The name Gauls came into vogue late,
      for of old the people were called Celts both by themselves and others.
      A host of them mustered and marched towards the Ionian Sea :
      they dispossessed the Illyrian nation and the Macedonians, as well
      as all the intervening peoples, and overran Thessaly. When they
      were come near to Thermopylae most of the Greeks awaited» Thermopylae and

      Thessaly are

      places. Illyians, Macedonians and Greeks are ethnicities, apparently.

      «But the shields of the Macedonians
      he dedicated to Zeus at Dodona : they bear the inscription :

      These shields once laid waste the golden Asian land,
      These shields brought slavery upon the Greeks ;

      But now they hang ownerless on the pillars Aqueous Zeus,
      Spoils of the boastful Macedon.» Again, the Greeks, not the Other Greeks.

      «The Athenians replied that they would never join the
      Messenians in invading Laconia, but if the Lacedaemonians began
      the war and marched against Messenia, the Athenians promised to
      stand by the Messenians. At last the Messenians formed an alliance
      with Philip, son of Amyntas, and the Macedonians ; and they say it
      was this which prevented them from taking part in the battle of
      Chaeronea. But, on the other hand, they would not draw sword
      against Greece. When after the death of Alexander the Greeks took 3
      up arms against Macedonia for the second time, the Messenians
      shared in the war» So the Messenians would side with Athens against Sparta,

      an inter-Greek

      affair, but to fight alongside the Macedonians at Chaeronia would have been

      raising the

      sword AGAINST GREECE as a whole. Hm.

      «the native town of Pulydamas, is now
      no longer inhabited… it happened that they were holding a public assembly.

      So Alexander

      surrounded them with targeteers and archers, and shot them all down, and he

      butchered all

      the rest of the men, and sold
      the women and children in order to pay his mercenaries… The
      handful that

      Μου αρέσει!

    • Chris, A Pureblooded Greek said

      escaped abode for a little while in the city, but after- wards they too were obliged, by their weak and forlorn condition, to abandon it at the time when God visited the whole Greek nation with a second overthrow in the war with Macedonia» Enough said.

      » the Achaeans deeply resented the
      conduct of Flamininus… They foresaw also that, like the rest of
      Greece, they were only about to exchange the dominion of Macedonia for that of Rome.» Macedonians, Romans. Potato Potaho.

      «For in a battle with the Romans, under Flamininus, on the
      heights called Cynoscephalae, Philip … was so
      soundly beaten that he lost most of his army, and had to enter into
      an engagement with the Romans, in virtue of which he withdrew
      his garrisons from every Greek city which he had reduced by force
      of arms.» Enough said.

      «Cassander, son of
      Antipater…hunted to death the whole house of Alexander : he flung
      Olympias to the infuriated Macedonians to be stoned by them to
      death; and he poisoned Alexander’s sons, Hercules whom Alexander
      had by Barsina, and Alexander whom he had by Roxana» Again with the stoning. This is dysfunctional for Greek royal politics.

      » About fifteen
      furlongs to the right of the city is the sanctuary of Ptoan Apollo.
      The poet Asius says that Ptous, after whom Apollo and the
      mountain were named, was a son of Athamas and Themisto.
      Before the invasion of the Macedonians under Alexander and the
      destruction of Thebes there was an infallible oracle here.» Alexander so respects the Greek religion that he destroyed an oracle of Apollo. Hm. Looting temples was extremely rare in Greek civil war. Oracles? unheard of afaik.

      » Brennus and Acichorius commanded the army destined to attack Paeonia while Bolgius marched against the Macedonians and Illyrians, and
      engaged in conflict with Ptolemy, then king of Macedonia…. Ptolemy himself fell in the battle, and the Macedonian loss was heavy ; but again the Celts had not the courage to march against Greece, and so the
      second expedition returned home again.» Celts invade Macedonia, not a part of Greece, apparently. Unfortunately they did end up invading Greece and apparently ATE their victims.

      » The spirit of the Greeks had fallen very low, but the very
      excess of their fear roused them to the necessity of defending
      Greece… safety was not to be had by a gift of water and earth ; for the fate that had over- taken the Macedonians, Thracians, and Paeonians in the former inroad of the Gauls was still fresh in their memory… Death or victory, that was the alternative that every man and every state prepared to face. » Greeks apparently doesn’t include Macedonians, Thracians, and Paeonians.

      ******************************************************************
      ARRIAN of NICOMEDIA:

      «Then indeed the Thebans, no longer defending
      themselves, were slain… in their
      houses, having there turned to defend themselves from
      the enemy, and others were slain as they were supplicating
      the protection of the gods in the temples ; not
      even the women and children being spared.» Alexander sure respected Greek religious sanctity….

      «.. the complete enslavement
      of Thebes… was attributed not without probability to the avenging wrath
      of the deity. It seemed as if the Thebans had after a long time suffered this punishment for their betrayal of the Greeks in the Median war» Those Greeks who side with Persians against Leonidas and Themistocles are denounced as traitors by Arrian. Those Greeks who side with Persians against Alexander are just mercenaries as below…. Hm.

      » Having settled these affairs, he returned into Macedonia.
      He then offered to the Olympian Zeus the sacrifice which
      had been instituted by Archelaus and had been customary
      up to that time; and he celebrated the public
      contest of the Olympic games at Aegae.^ » So sacrifice to Zeus not practiced in Macedonia before Alexander’s grand-dad, a known «philhellene», and isnt that funny. Byron was a Philhellene, Kolokotronis a Patriot….
      Also, why isn’t Alexander celebrating in Olympia?

      » At the beginning of the spring he marched
      towards the Hellespont, entrusting the affairs of Macedonia
      and Greece to Antipater. He led not much above 30,000 infantry together with light-armed troops and archers, and more than 5,000 cavalry.^ »

      » Besides, he did not wish to
      deliver over to the foreigners on so unstable an element
      the advantage which the Macedonians derived from their
      skill and courage; and if they were beaten in the seabattle,
      their defeat would be no small hindrance to their
      final success in the war, both for other reasons, and
      especially because the Greeks, being animated with
      courage at the news of his naval defeat, would attempt to
      effect a revolution. …. Then the Macedonians from all
      sides pressed close upon the citizens and the Grecian
      mercenaries, who took to flight ; some of them, casting
      themselves into the sea»

      » Alexander … led out the Macedonians and slew those who
      were still engaged in setting fire to the city. But
      he issued orders to preserve all the Halicarnassians who
      should be taken in their houses. As soon as the daylight
      appeared he could discern the strongholds which
      the Persians and the Grecian mercenaries had occupied;
      but he decided not to besiege them, considering that he »

      » Some of the Macedonians who served in Alexander’s
      army had married … and therefore sent them back from Caria
      to spend the winter in Macedonia with their wives…
      He gave these officers instructions to levy as many horse
      and foot soldiers as they could from the country… He also sent Cleander, son of Polemocrates, to levy soldiers in Peloponnesus, and Parmenio to
      Sardis, giving him the command of a regiment of the
      Cavalry Companions, the Thessalian cavalry, and the rest
      of the Grecian allies» Volunteer army? More like a blood tax

      » Here an embassy reached Alexander from the
      Athenians, beseeching him to release to them the Athenian
      prisoners who … were then in
      Macedonia serving in chains …. The envoys departed
      without obtaining their request on behalf of the prisoners
      for the present. For Alexander did not think it safe,
      whilst the war against the Persian was still going on, to
      relax in the slightest degree the terror with which he
      inspired the Greeks» So Philhellenic

      » But as soon as Darius was certified of Alexander’s
      approach for battle, he conveyed about 30,000 of his
      cavalry and with them 20,000 of his light-armed infantry
      across the river Pinarus, in order that he might be able
      to draw up the rest of his forces with ease. Of the heavy
      armed infantry, he placed first the 30,000 Greek mercenaries
      to oppose the phalanx of the Macedonians, and
      on both sides of these he placed 60,000 of the men called
      Cardaces, who were also heavy-armed infantry………………..
      ……………………………………..
      and here Alexanderand his men won a brilliant victory. … Here then the struggle was
      desperate ; the aim of the Greek mercenaries of Darius
      being to push the Macedonians back into the river, and
      regain the victory, though their own forces were already
      flying; the aim of the Macedonians being not to fall
      short of Alexander’s good-fortune, which was already
      manifest, and not to tarnish the glory of the phalanx,
      which up to that time had been commonly asserted to be
      invincible. Moreover the feeling of rivalry which existed
      between the Grecian and Macedonian races inspired each
      side in the conflict. Hereupon the regiments on the right wing, perceiving
      that the Persians opposed to them had already been put
      to rout, wheeled round towards the Grecian mercenaries
      of Darius and their own hard-pressed detachment. Having
      driven the Greeks away from the river, they extended
      their phalanx beyond the Persian army on the side which
      had been broken ; and attacking the Greeks on the flank,
      were already beginning to cut them up. However the
      Persian cavalry which had been posted opposite the
      Thessalians did not remain on the other side of the river –
      during the struggle, but came through the water and
      made a vigorous attack upon the Thessalian squadrons…. for the Persians
      did not give way until they perceived that Darius
      had fled and the Grecian mercenaries had been cut up by
      the phalanx and severed from them. »

      » Alexander said that he wished to take vengeance on the Persians,
      in retaliation for their deeds in the invasion of Greece,
      when they razed Athens to the ground and burnt down
      the temples. But
      Alexander does not seem to me to have acted on this
      occasion with prudence j nor do I think that this was
      any retributive penalty at all on the ancient Persians.» Arrian doesn’t believe Alexander’s excuse. Seeing how Alexander liked to terrorize Greece, how can we disagree?

      » When Alexander reached ecbatana, he sent the Thessalian
      cavalry and the other Grecian allies back to the
      sea,» Oh, so when its the Thesallians it’s them and THE OTHER GREEKS, but when it’s the Macedonian, it’s the and THE GREEKS. Ta efkolos enoumena???

      » Such was the end of Darius, in the archonship of Aristophon
      at Athens, in the month Hecatombaion. This king was .. involved in a war with the Macedonians and Greeks at the very time he succeeded
      to the regal power and consequently it was no longer
      possible for him to act the tyrant towards his subjects
      even if he had been so inclined, standing as he did in
      greater danger than they.»

      » Alexander was induced to indulge his
      desire of emulating the Median and Persian wealth and
      to treat his subjects as inferior beings according to the
      custom of the foreign kings. Nor do I by any means
      commend him for changing the Macedonian style of dress
      which his fathers had adopted, for the Median one,»
      Not «our style of dress», the «macedonian» one

      » As Clitus did not desist from his insulting remarks,
      Alexander …snatched a javelin from one of his confidential bodyguards
      … with which he struck Clitus and killed him.» No Spartan king would stoop to that level.

      » Anaxarchus commenced the discussion by saying that
      he considered Alexander much more worthy of being
      deemed a god than either Dionysus or Heracles, not only
      on account of the very numerous and mighty exploits which he had performed but also because Dionysus was only a Theban, in no way related to Macedonians ; and
      Heracles was an Argive, not at all related to them,
      except that Alexander deduced his descent from him.
      He added that the Macedonians might with greater justice
      gratify their king with divine honors,» So much for respecting Greek divinities. Also even if Alexander CLAIMED Argive Descent (And Hitler Greek, so? Actions… Actions), the Macedonians feel no kinship. Also, which Greeks in that century deified Kings? Nobody. God Leonidas anyone??

      » But Callisthenes
      interposed and said… I demand, Alexander… make
      up thy mind whether thou wilt return thither and compel
      the Greeks, who are men most devoted to freedom, to pay
      .
      thee the honor of prostration, or whether thou wilt keep
      aloof from Greece, and inflict this honor on the Macedonians
      alone» Greeks (in all poleis) are freedom-loving. Macedonians arent. Enough said.

      «These reports excited
      in Alexander an ardent desire to advance farther ;
      but the spirit of the Macedonians now began to flag… he called a
      council of the officers of the brigades and addressed
      them as follows :
      » … if as the result of these labours,
      you hold possession of Ionia, the Hellespont… the Phrygias, Cappadocia, Patagonia, Lydia, Caria, Lycia,Pamphylia, Phoenicia, Egypt together with Greek part of Libya….. why do ye shrink from adding the Hyphasis also, and the nations beyond this river, to the Macedonian empire?…… But what great or glorious deed could we have performed,
      if, sitting at ease in Macedonia, we had thought it
      sufficient to preserve our own country without any labour,
      simply repelling the attacks of the nations on our frontiers,
      the Thracians, Illyrians, and Triballians, or even
      those Greeks who were unfriendly to our interests ?» Macedonian empire. Apparently taking away from Greece the Greek part of Libya. Enough said. Greeks Illyrians and Tribalians are clearly races/nations and potential enemies to Macedonians. Are we supposed to somehow think at the same time Macedonians and Thracians are part of the Greeks?? Its Greeks again, not ‘other Greeks’ or our fellow Greeks/kinsmen in Sparta and Argos etc, a term that litters Thucydides Herodotus Plutarch etc in inter-city-state dialogue, even in the midst of bitter civil war. Oh yeah, Macedonians do not consider Argives kin…

      **********************************************************************

      DEMOSTHENES:

      » and when I find the same man using very different language about this plunderer of the Greeks, who is extending his power, as you see, at our very doors and in the heart of Greece, I am astonished, and, whoever he may be, it is I that fear him, just because he does not fear Philip. » Phillip the plunderer of the Greeks. Not the Ionians or the Dorians etc. The Greeks. A nation not a rabble of warring poleis.

      » But Philip, … has robbed the Pheraeans of their city… he is even now engaged in an expedition against Ambracia, and as for the three Elean colonies in Cassopia—Pandosia, Bucheta, and Elatea—he has wasted their land with fire, stormed their cities, and handed them over to be the slaves of his own kinsman, Alexander. How zealous he is for the freedom and independence of the Greeks, you may judge from his acts. » Enough said.

      » what has become manifest to all living men alike is this—that, in effect, the freedom of the whole Greek world was being preserved in the souls of these men. At any rate, since fate removed them, not one of those remaining has made a stand against the foe. While I desire that my words may be free from offence, it seems to me that if one should declare that the valor of these men was the very life of Greece he would speak the truth; for at one and the same time their spirits were separated from their dear bodies and the self-esteem of Greece was taken from her.» Funeral Oration at Chaeronea for those who died fighting Phillip. No orator ever declared all Greece enslaved and defiled when Athens Sparta or Thebes were running Greece despite the fury of those wars. If anyone has sources where they do, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide them

      » Olympias has made complaints against you about the incident at Dodona, complaints which are unfair, as I have twice already proved in the Assembly before yourselves and the rest of Athens. I explained to her envoys that the charges she brings against the city are not justified. For Zeus of Dodona commanded you through the oracle to embellish the statue of Dione. You made a face as beautiful as you could, together with all the other appropriate parts; and having prepared a great deal of expensive finery for the goddess and dispatched envoys with a sacrifice at great expense, you embellished the statue of Dione in a manner worthy of yourselves and of the goddess. These measures brought you the complaints of Olympias, who said in her letters that the country of Molossia, in which the temple stands, belonged to her, and that therefore we had no right to interfere with anything there at all. » Epirote? Mollosian? Olympias has such respect for Greek religious practice. How very Greek of her.

      » Not content with the destruction of cities, is he not organizing the Pythian games, the common festival of the Greeks, and if he cannot be present in person, sending his menials to act as stewards? Is he not master of Thermopylae and the passes into Greece, holding those places with his garrisons and his mercenaries? Has he not the right of precedence at the Oracle, ousting us and the Thessalians and the Dorians and the rest of the Amphictyons from a privilege which not even all Greek states can claim? Does he not dictate to the Thessalians their form of government? Does he not send mercenaries, some to Porthmus to expel the Eretrian democracy, others to Oreus to set up the tyranny of Philistides? Yet the Greeks see all this and suffer it. They seem to watch him just as they would watch a hailstorm, each praying that it may not come their way, but none making any effort to stay its course. And it is not only his outrages on Greece that go unavenged, but even the wrongs which each suffers separately. For nothing can go beyond that. Are not the Corinthians hit by his invasion of Ambracia and Leucas? The Achaeans by his vow to transfer Naupactus to the Aetolians? The Thebans by his theft of Echinus? And is he not marching even now against his allies the Byzantines? Of our own possessions, not to mention other places, is he not holding Cardia, the greatest city in the Chersonese? In spite of such treatment, we hesitate one and all, we play the coward, we keep an eye on our neighbors, distrusting one another rather than our common foe. Yet if he treats us all with such brutality, what do you think he will do when he has got each of us separately into his clutches?» If Phillip is Greek, why him organizing the Pythian Games and forcing his way into the Amphictyony via sacred war (like later some Roman states did too) MORE an insult to Greece than destroying her cities? AFAIK no Greek ever declared what any of Athens Sparta or Thebes did to other Greeks an «Outrage on Greece» as a nation DID THEY???

      » Philip, they say, after all is not yet what the Lacedaemonians were; they were masters of every sea and land » There is a theme here. Philip vs the Spartans. Not the Macedonians vs the Spartans, not Phillip vs Lysander. Demostheneses Greeks are citizens of poleis, Philip is a tribal monarch. Arrian earlier always calls Macedonians ‘Son of …» and (other????? does this still make sense) Greeks «so and so of Orchomenos» say. A significant social difference. Greeks are citizens, Macedonians tribal. Demosthenes talks the same.

      » To begin with ourselves, we must make provision for our defense, I mean with war-galleys, funds, and men; for even if all other states succumb to slavery, we surely must fight the battle of liberty. Then having completed all these preparations and made our purpose clear, … we must summon, collect, instruct, and exhort the rest of the Greeks… » Not the allies of Athens like in the civil wars, the REST OF THE GREEKS like when the Persians invaded.

      «I observe, however, that all men, and you first of all, have conceded to Philip something which has been the occasion of every war that the Greeks have ever waged. And what is that? The power of doing what he likes, of calmly plundering and stripping the Greeks one by one, and of attacking their cities and reducing them to slavery. Yet your hegemony in Greece lasted seventy-five years, that of Sparta twenty-nine, and in these later times Thebes too gained some sort of authority after the battle of Leuctra. But neither to you nor to the Thebans nor to the Lacedaemonians did the Greeks ever yet, men of Athens, concede the right of unrestricted action, or anything like it. On the contrary, when you, or rather the Athenians of that day, were thought to be showing a want of consideration in dealing with others, all felt it their duty, even those who had no grievance against them, to go to war in support of those who had been injured; and again, when the Lacedaemonians had risen to power and succeeded to your position of supremacy, and when they set to work to encroach on others and interfered unduly with the established order of things, all the Greeks were up in arms, even those who had no grievance of their own. Why need I refer to the other states? Nay, we ourselves and the Lacedaemonians, though at the outset we could not have specified any wrong at each other’s hands, thought it our duty to fight on account of wrongs which we saw the other states suffering. Yet all the faults committed by the Lacedaemonians in those thirty years, and by our ancestors in their seventy years of supremacy, are fewer, men of Athens, than the wrongs which Philip has done to the Greeks in the thirteen incomplete years in which he has been coming to the top—or rather, they are not a fraction of them. And this is easily proved by a short calculation. I pass over Olynthus and Methone and Apollonia and the two and thirty cities in or near Thrace, all of which Philip has destroyed so ruthlessly that a traveler would find it hard to say whether they had ever been inhabited. I say nothing of the destruction of the important nation of the Phocians. But how stands the case of the Thessalians? Has he not robbed them of their free constitutions and of their very cities, setting up tetrarchies in order to enslave them, not city by city, but tribe by tribe? Are not tyrannies already established in Euboea, an island, remember, not far from Thebes and Athens? Does he not write explicitly in his letters, “I am at peace with those who are willing to obey me”? And he does not merely write this without putting it into practice; but he is off to the Hellespont, just as before he hurried to Ambracia; in the Peloponnese he occupies the important city of Elis; only the other day he intrigued against the Megarians. Neither the Greek nor the barbarian world is big enough for the fellow’s ambition. And we Greeks see and hear all this, and yet we do not send embassies to one another and express our indignation. We are in such a miserable position, we have so entrenched ourselves in our different cities, that to this very day we can do nothing that our interest or our duty demands; we cannot combine, we cannot take any common pledge of help or friendship; but we idly watch the growing power of this man, each bent on profiting by the interval afforded by another’s ruin, taking not a thought, making not an effort for the salvation of Greece. For that Philip, like the recurrence or attack of a fever or some other disease, is threatening even those who think themselves out of reach, of that not one of you is ignorant. Ay, and you know this also, that the wrongs which the Greeks suffered from the Lacedaemonians or from us, they suffered at all events at the hands of true-born sons of Greece, and they might have been regarded as the acts of a legitimate son, born to great possessions, who should be guilty of some fault or error in the management of his estate: so far he would deserve blame and reproach, yet it could not be said that it was not one of the blood, not the lawful heir who was acting thus. But if some slave or superstitious bastard had wasted and squandered what he had no right to, heavens! how much more monstrous and exasperating all would have called it! Yet they have no such qualms about Philip and his present conduct, though he is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honor, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave. »

      The Spartans Athenians Thebans held HEGEMONY IN GREECE, even wronged other Greeks, but Philip committed OUTRAGES ON GREECE, not bunches of Greeks, but rather Greece herself. Also, Philip is savage by Greek standards of war «all of which Philip has destroyed so ruthlessly that a traveler would find it hard to say whether they had ever been inhabited» and he expects complete submission in a very unGreek way. And finally » Philip … is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honor, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave. »
      Cleary not all Greeks bought the Macedonian tyrants claims to Greek descent

      ===============================================================
      ISOCRATES:

      » and that, besides, you, beyond any of the Hellenes, were possessed of both wealth and power, which are the only things in the world that are adapted at once to persuade and to compel » Letter to Philip. He beyond any of the Greeks

      «But I must not shrink from telling you plainly of the discouragements I met with from some of my associates … “Think of it!” they said. “You are about to send an address which is intended to offer advice to Philip, a man who… has about him the ablest men in Macedonia, who, however inexperienced they may be in other matters, are likely to know better than you do what is expedient for him. Furthermore, you will find that there are many Hellenes living in his country, who are not unknown to fame or lacking in intelligence» If Macedonia is Greek, this is like saying we have a many Americans living in New York. We could say Texans in New York or Phocians in Athens or Greeks in America, but if one is nationality there other has to be too.

      » And the founder of your empire, although he aspired higher than did his fellow citizens and set his heart on a king’s power, was not minded to take the same road as others who set out to attain a like ambition. [107] For they endeavored to win this honor by engendering factions, disorder, and bloodshed in their own cities; he, on the other hand, held entirely aloof from Hellenic territory, and set his heart upon occupying the throne of Macedon. For he knew full well that the Hellenes were not accustomed to submit to the rule of one man, while the other races were incapable of ordering their lives without the control of some such power. And so it came about, owing to his unique insight in this regard, that his kingship has proved to be quite set apart from that of the generality of kings: for, because he alone among the Hellenes did not claim the right to rule over a people of kindred race, he alone was able to escape the perils incident to one-man power. For history discovers to us the fact that those among the Hellenes who have managed to acquire such authority have not only been destroyed themselves but have been blotted, root and branch, from the face of the earth; while he, on the contrary, lived a long and happy life and left his seed in possession of the same honors which he himself had enjoyed. » While Isocrates clearly likes Philip and is willing to run with the Argive descent claim (while trying to get the Athenians to submit to Philips rule but oh well he’s distantly descended from Argive royalty so that’s okay and generations of the Macedonians but lets not talk about it), Macedonians are not Greeks.

      *****************************************************************

      THRASYMACHUS (fragment, On Behalf of the Lariasaeans invaded by Macedonia)

      «Shall we being Greeks, be slaves to Archelaus, a barbarian?»

      *******************************************************************

      POLYBIUS:

      «My reason for writing about this war at such length, was the advisability, or rather necessity, in view of the general purpose of my history, of making clear the relations existing between Macedonia and Greece at a time which coincides with the period of which I am about to treat» Enough said.
      » After finishing the celebration of the Nemean games,
      King Philip of Macedon returned to Argos and laid aside his crown and purple robe, with the view of making a display of democratic equality and good nature. But the more democratic the dress which he wore, the more absolute and royal were the privileges which he claimed. He was not now content with seducing unmarried women, or even with intriguing with married women, but assumed the right of sending authoritatively for any woman whose appearance struck him; and offered violence to those who did not at once obey» How civilized.
      » the speech made by Agelaus of Naupactus in the first … “…O King. You will do this, if you abandon the policy of weakening the Greeks, and thus rendering them an easy prey to the invader; and consult on the contrary for their good as you would for your own person, and have a care for all parts of Greece alike, as if part and parcel of your own domains. If you act in this spirit, the Greeks will be your warm friends and faithful coadjutors in all your undertakings; while foreigners will be less ready to form designs against you, seeing with dismay the firm loyalty of the Greeks» Greece isnt part of Philips domains but if he treated her like instead of attacking her, much better all round. Again Greece, not the rest of Greece.

      » Flamininus nevertheless bade him speak on the matters he had come to consider. Philip however said that “The word was not with himself but with Flamininus; and therefore begged that he would state clearly what he was to do in order to have peace.” The Roman consul replied that “What he had to say was simple and obvious: it was to bid him evacuate Greece entirely of his men; restore the prisoners

      Μου αρέσει!

    • Chris, A Pureblooded Greek said

      and deserters in his hands to their several states, hand over to the Romans

      those parts of Illyricum of which he had

      become possessed since the peace of Epirus; and, similarly, to restore to

      Ptolemy all the

      cities which he had taken from him since the death of Ptolemy Philopator.
      Having said this Flamininus refrained from any further speech of his own;

      but turning to

      the others he bade them deliver what they had been severally charged to say

      by those who

      sent them. And first Dionysodorus, the envoy of Attalus, took up the

      discourse by declaring

      that “Philip ought to restore the king’s ships which had been captured in

      the battle at

      Chios and their crews with them; and to restore also the temple of Aphrodite

      to its

      original state, as well as the Nicephorium, both of which he had destroyed.”

      He was

      followed by the Rhodian navarch Acesimbrotus, who demanded “That Philip

      should evacuate

      Peraea, which he had taken from them; withdraw his garrisons from Iasus,

      Bargylia, and

      Euromus; restore the Perinthians to their political union with Byzantium;

      and evacuate

      Sestos, Abydos, and all commercial ports and harbours in Asia.” Following

      the Rhodians the

      Achaeans demanded “The restoration of Corinth and Argos uninjured.” Then

      came the

      Aetolians, who first demanded, like the Romans, that “Philip should entirely

      evacuate

      Greece; and, secondly, that he should restore to them uninjured all cities

      formerly members

      of the Aetolian league.”» Aside from the fact that yet another Philip is

      doing havoc in

      Greece AGAIN, he cannot very well entirely evacuate Greece of his troops if

      Macedonia is in

      Greece. ‘evacuate the other poleis’, yes, ‘evacuate Greece’, no.

      » For at the time when Onomarchus and Philomelus, in defiance of religion

      and law seized

      Delphi and made themselves masters of the treasury of the god, who is there

      among you who

      does not know that they collected such a mighty force as no Greek dared any

      longer face?

      Nay, along with this violation of religion, they were within an ace of

      becoming lords of

      all Greece also. At that crisis Philip volunteered his assistance; destroyed

      the tyrants,

      secured the temple » And inserted himself into the Ampictyony by hook or

      crook. ‘No

      Greek dared’. Philip did. Ta Efkolos….
      » That the Macedonian supremacy, men of Sparta, was the beginning of slavery

      to the Greeks,

      I am persuaded that no one will venture to deny; and you may satisfy

      yourselves by looking

      at it thus. There was a league of Greeks living in the parts towards Thrace

      who were

      colonists from Athens and Chalcis, of which the most conspicuous and

      powerful was the city

      of Olynthus. Having enslaved and made an example of this town, Philip not

      only became

      master of the Thraceward cities, but reduced Thessaly also to his authority

      by the terror

      which he had thus set up. Not long after this he conquered the Athenians in

      a pitched

      battle, and used his success with magnanimity, not from any wish to benefit

      the Athenians—

      far from it, but in order that his favourable treatment of them might induce

      the other

      states to submit to him voluntarily. The reputation of your city was still

      such that it

      seemed likely, that, if a proper opportunity arose, it would recover its

      supremacy in

      Greece. Accordingly, without waiting for any but the slightest pretext,

      Philip came with

      his army and cut down everything standing in your fields, and destroyed the

      houses with

      fire. And at last, after destroying towns and open country alike, he

      assigned part of your

      territory to the Argives, part to Tegea and Megalopolis, and part to the

      Messenians:

      determined to benefit every people in spite of all justice, on the sole

      condition of their

      injuring you. Alexander succeeded Philip on the throne, and how he destroyed

      Thebes,

      because he thought that it contained a spark of Hellenic life, however

      small, you all I

      think know well. And why need I speak in detail of how the successors of

      this king have

      treated the Greeks? For surely there is no man living, so uninterested in

      public affairs,

      as not to have heard how Antipater in his victory at Lamia treated the

      unhappy Athenians,

      as well as the other Greeks and how he went so far in violence and brutality

      as to

      institute man-hunters, and send them to the various cities to catch all who

      had ever spoken

      against, or in any way annoyed, the royal family of Macedonia: of whom some

      were dragged by

      force from the temples, and others from the very altars, and put to death

      with torture, and

      others who escaped were forced to leave Greece entirely; nor had they any

      refuge save the

      Aetolian nation alone. For the Aetolians were the only people in Greece who

      withstood

      Antipater in behalf of those unjustly defrauded of safety to their lives:

      they alone faced

      the invasion of Brennus and his barbarian army and they alone came to your

      aid when called

      upon, with a determination to assist you in regaining your ancestral

      supremacy in Greece»

      Never mind how we have all Greece again, not the rest of Greece. This is a

      level no polis

      of Greece ever stooped to or for so long.

      **********************************************
      some non-Greek ancient sources also
      **********************************************
      QUINTUS CURTIUS RUFUS
      » It was unanimously agreed, that Philotas should be forced by torture to

      expose his

      confederates. Dismissing, the king enjoined, all the council to secrecy. He

      gave public

      orders for the army to decamp the next day, as though that had been the

      subject of

      deliberation. He invited Philotas to the last banquet of which he was to

      partake, and had

      the heart not only to sup, but to converse familiarly with the man whom he

      had

      condemned…. By order, Philotas was then brought forth, with his hands

      pinioned at his

      back, and an old veil over his face. The soldiers were perceptibly moved at

      his deplorable

      appearance…. The king, turning to him, said: «The Macedonians are to be your

      judges. I

      ask, whether you intend to use their native language?» Philotas answered:

      «Besides the

      Macedonians, there are great numbers present, who I believe will understand

      me more

      readily, if I use the same language in which yourself spoke, for no other

      reason, I

      apprehend, than that it was more intelligible to the majority.» ‘Mark,’

      cries the king, how

      Philotas rejects his country’s lanuage, disdained only by himself. But let

      him adopt ‘what

      tongue he pleases, so you remember that ‘he equally abhors our manners and

      our speech.’ And

      thus Alexander retired…. Alexander, returning into the council of the army,

      adjourned it

      to the next day, either that Philotas might be racked in prison, or that all

      the

      circumstances might be otherwise penetrated. Although night was approaching,

      the king

      convened his friends. Most of them proposed, that Philotas should be stoned

      to death,

      according to the Macedonian custom: but Hephaestion, Craterus, and Coenos,

      contended, that

      the truth ought to be wrung from him by torture and the others came over to

      their opinion.

      » By this point there are at least as many Greeks in Alexander’s army as his

      own.

      Macedonian language, not Greek, though bilingual, the later they disdain.

      Macedonian

      (barbaric) customs not Greek. good for us

      » Alexander….. began to concert in what manner he should take upon him

      celestial honours.

      Not satisfied to be styled, he was desirous that man- kind should believe

      that he was

      Jupiter’s son; as though he had the same authority over their minds, as over

      their tongues.

      He required the Macedonians, therefore, to salute him as worshippers,

      prostrating

      themselves on the ground, in the manner of the Persians. To stimulate his

      prurient pride,

      adulation was not wanting, the perpetual bane of kings, which ruins more

      than the fiercest

      hostility. The Macedonians are to be exculpated, for none of them could

      endure to swerve

      from their national customs: but the Greeks in the king’s train, sullied the

      profession of

      the liberal arts by corrupt manners…. Hercules and Bacchus, with Castor and

      Pollux, would

      give way to the new deity. On a festival, the king, therefore, had a banquet

      prepared with

      every gorgeous display: to which were invited the chief of his friends,

      Macedonians and

      Greeks, with his nobles.» Again, Greeks and Macedonians: different people

      with different

      customs….

      » said the king to the assembly … I know why thou wiliest me to introduce

      thy

      Callisthenes…. in order that he might here repeat the same scandalous things

      which thou,

      having fresh learned, hast been reciting before this assembly. Had he been a

      Macedonian,

      the worthy tutor had been brought in with his pupil: but an Olynthian is

      excluded from the

      privilege. After this speech, Alexander dismissed the council; and caused

      the condemned to

      be delivered to the other members of the band, who, to prove their

      allegiance, inflicted on

      the criminals a cruelly protracted execution. Callisthenes also died under

      torture: He was

      innocent of the conspiracy; but he was not fitted, for a court, by the

      disposition of a

      flatterer. No homicide excited in the Greeks stronger disaffection toward

      Alexander,

      inasmuch as Callisthenes possessed the highest probity and learning; by him,

      Alexander was

      reconciled to life, when, having slain Clitus, he would have destroyed

      himself by

      abstinence. The king did not simply kill the philosopher without a trial,

      but tortured him.

      His cruelty was succeeded too late by penitence.» Not only is Alexander a

      cruel tyrant but

      under him a Macedonian could speak in his own defense (for all the help it

      was to

      Philotas). A Greek however respected could not even testify at his own

      trial. Now are we

      to say Macedonians considered themselves Greek????
      » Among the company, was Dioxippus the Athenian, … Corrhagus, a Macedonian,

      already

      inebriated, concluded similar scurrilities with a challenge: «If thou «be a

      man, fight me

      tomorrow with the sword… On the following day, each more eagerly demanding

      the trial, the

      king, because he could not deter them, suffered the appointed meeting. An

      imposing

      concourse of the military were spectators; including the Greeks, who took

      part with

      Dioxippus. The Macedonian had taken the regular arms; holding with his left

      hand a brazen

      shield and the pike called sarissa… Dioxippus, by a close embrace, prevented

      him; and,

      supplanting his feet, drove him to the ground. Having snatched his sword, he

      stood with his

      foot on his neck, his club lifted to crush the vanquished champion, if he be

      not prevented

      by the king. The event of this exhibition was, not only to the Macedonians,

      but to

      Alexander, mortifying; chiefly because the Barbarians were pre sent; as he

      feared that the

      blazoned valor of the Macedonians would sink into derision. Hence the royal

      ear was open to

      the accusations of the envious…. Dioxippus could not endure glances from so

      many

      concurring eyes, by which he was marked out as a thief. After he had

      withdrawn from the

      entertainment, having written a letter to the king, he fell by his own

      sword.» First what

      kind of Dori is a Sarissa? Second, the Greeks rooted for Dioxippus, and the

      Macedonians

      couldn’t stand that the Greek won and harassed him to death One people, huh?

      Sort of

      reminds me how mad Hitler was when some Germans lost an Olympic mach to

      Greeks.
      » The kings of Macedon were accustomed thus to purify the troops. At the

      extremities of the

      field into which the army was to be led, the inwards of a bitch, cut in two,

      were de-

      posited by each party. In the intermediate space ranged all the forces, the

      cavalry on one

      side, the phalanx on the other» Oh right the Ancient Greeks cut dogs in half

      all the

      time….

      **************************************************
      LIVY
      » Philip himself, moved by a desire of enlarging his dominions, although he

      had suffered

      nothing whatever at the hands of the Romans, sent an embassy, the chief of

      which was

      Xenophanes, to Hannibal in Italy, proposing to aid him in Italy if he would

      promise to

      assist him in the subjugation of Greece.» Greece, not the rest of Greece.

      Enough said

      » decreed that all the Greek cities that had been under Philip’s rule should

      be free, and

      that he should withdraw his garrisons from them before the next celebration

      of the Isthmian

      games …. These conditions were added by the Senate and Philip accepted them

      all, by which

      it was made plain that those named by Flamininus were much too lenient. They

      sent to him as

      counsellors ten men (as was customary at the end of a war), with whose aid

      he should

      regulate the new acquisitions.
      When he had arranged these things with them he went to the Isthmian games,

      and, the stadium

      being full of people, he commanded silence by trumpet and directed the

      herald to make this

      proclamation, «The Roman people and Senate, and Flamininus, their general,

      having

      vanquished the Macedonians and Philip, their king, order that Greece shall

      be free from

      foreign garrisons, not subject to tribute, and shall live under her own

      customs and laws.»

      Thereupon there was great shouting and rejoicing and a scene of rapturous

      tumult; and

      groups here and there called the herald back in order that he might repeat

      his words for

      them.» Philip is made to remove his troops from Greece and….Greece shall be

      free from

      FOREIGN garrisons.

      «Then Antiochus went down to the Hellespont and crossed over to Chersonesus

      and possessed

      himself of a large part of Thrace by conquest or surrender. He freed the

      Greeks who were

      under subjection to the Thracians» Thracians vs Greeks

      «But the general concern was not so much for the Aetolians, who were more

      warlike than the

      rest of the Greeks, as for the liberty of Greece, which would be seriously

      endangered if

      Philip and his kingdom took an active part in Greek politics.» The politics

      of Greece, not

      the rest of Greece. Enough said

      » That around all these temples Philip had scattered his destructive flames,

      and left the

      images of the gods lying scorched and mutilated among the prostrated pillars

      of their

      fanes. Such as he had rendered the country of Attica, formerly opulent and

      adorned, such,

      if he were suffered, would he render Aetolia and the whole of Greece. That

      the mutilation

      of their own city, also, would have been similar, if the Romans had not come

      to its relief:

      for he had shown the same wicked rage against the gods who are the guardians

      of the city,

      and Minerva who presides over the citadel; the same against the temple of

      Ceres at Eleusis;

      the same against Jupiter and Minerva at Piraeus. In a word, having been

      repelled by force

      of arms, not only from their temples, but even from their walls, he had

      vented his fury on

      those sacred edifices which were protected by religion alone…….Then the

      Roman legate

      spoke as follows: «The Macedonians and then the Athenians have compelled me

      to alter

      entirely the address I was going to make. I came to protest against Philip’s

      wrongful

      action against all those cities of our allies, but the Macedonians by the

      charges they have

      brought against Rome have made me a defendant rather than an accuser. The

      Athenians, again,

      by their recital of his impious and inhuman crimes against the gods above

      and those below,

      have left nothing more for me or for any one else to bring up against him.

      Consider that

      the same things have been said by the inhabitants of Chios and Abydos, by

      the Aeneans, the

      Maronites, the Thasians, by the natives of Paros and Samos, of Larissa and

      Messene, and by

      the people over there in Achaia, and that those upon whom he was able to

      inflict most

      injury have made the gravest and most serious charges…. With respect to the

      charges

      against Philip-the bloodshed in his own family, the murders of his kinsmen

      and friends, his

      lust almost more inhuman than his cruelty-you who live nearest to Macedonia

      know most about

      them.» Enough said. Respect for the Greek Gods? Bull.

      » Amynander briefly stated his view, which was that the terms should be such

      that Greece

      should be sufficiently strong, even in the absence of the Romans, to protect

      her liberty

      and prevent the peace from being broken. The Aetolians spoke in a more

      vindictive tone…

      they went on to assure him that he was totally mistaken if he supposed that

      he would leave

      either peace with Rome or liberty for Greece on a sure basis unless Philip

      were either put

      to death or expelled from his kingdom. Either of these alternatives was easy

      for him if he

      chose to make full use of his victory. Quinctius replied that … You think

      that kings of

      Macedon are a danger to the liberties of Greece. If that nation and kingdom

      were swept

      away, Thracians, Illyrians, Gauls, savage and barbarous tribes, would pour

      into Macedonia

      and then into Greece. Do not, by removing the danger closest to you, open

      the door to

      greater and more serious ones.» Here he was interrupted by Phaeneas, the

      president of the

      Aetolian league, who solemnly declared amid great excitement that if Philip

      escaped then,

      he would soon prove a still more dangerous enemy.» Macedonians and Thracians

      are not

      Greek. Which is worse is debated.

      «Then indeed the Athenian people, whose hatred for Philip had long been

      restrained by fear,

      in view of the prospect of aid at hand, gave full vent to their anger. …

      They

      immediately proposed and the people passed a motion that all statues of

      Philip, all

      representations of him, and their inscriptions, and also those of his

      ancestors, male and

      female, should be removed and done away with, that all the feast-days,

      sacred observances

      and priesthoods which had been established in honor of him or his ancestors

      should be

      abolished; even the places in which any memorials or inscriptions in his

      honor had been

      set up should be accursed, and that it should not be lawful to place or

      dedicate in them

      thereafter anything that could lawfully be placed or dedicated in any

      unpolluted spot; the

      public priests, as often as they offered prayers on behalf of the people of

      Athens and

      their allies, their armies and fleets, should so often curse and execrate

      Philip, his

      children and his kingdom, his military and naval forces, and the whole race

      and name of the

      Macedonians.» I never heard them declare a Spartan or the Spartans in whole

      CURSED.

      ************************************************
      JOSEPHUS
      «These Egyptians, therefore, were the authors of these troubles, who not

      having the

      constancy of Macedonians, nor the prudence of Greeks, indulged all of them

      the evil manners

      of the Egyptians» Macedonians not Greeks again.
      «how much harder is to the Greeks, who were esteemed the noblest of all

      people under sun?

      These, although they inhabit a large country, are in subjection to six

      bundles of Roman

      rods. It is the same case with the Macedonians, who have juster reason to

      claim their

      liberty then you have.» And again, enough said.

      ***********************************************************
      JUSTIN
      «By which means it came to pass, that during the absence of exertion on the

      part of the

      Greeks, the name of the Macedonians, previously mean and obscure, rose into

      notice; and

      Philip, who had been kept three years as a hostage at Thebes, and had been

      imbued with the

      virtues of Epaminondas and Pelopidas, imposed the power of Macedonia, like a

      yoke of

      bondage, upon the necks of Greece and Asia» Macedonians are not Greeks, they

      brought a

      ZYGO not unity, and if the hostage is true, is that where Philip got the

      Argive descent

      thing?

      «Alexander, at the very beginning of his reign, purchased peace from the

      Illyrians with a

      sum of money, giving his brother Philip to them as a hostage.» blech.
      «WHEN Philip had once come into Greece, allured by the plunder of a few

      cities, and had

      formed an opinion, from the spoil of such towns as were of less note, how

      great must be the

      riches of all its cities put together, he resolved to make war upon the

      whole of Greece.»

      If Macedonia is part of Greece, he didnt come into Greece, he always was in

      it. greedy…
      «he made war upon the Athenians, of which he had long dissembled his

      intention. The Thebans

      espoused their cause, fearing that if the Athenians were conquered, the war,

      like a fire in

      the neighborhood, would spread to them. An alliance being accordingly made

      between the two

      cities, which were just before3 at violent enmity with each other, they

      wearied Greece with

      embassies, stating that “they thought the common enemy should be repelled by

      their common

      strength, for that Philip would not rest, if his first attempts succeeded,

      until he had

      subjugated all Greece.” …A battle being brought on, though the Athenians

      were far

      superior in number of soldiers, they were conquered by the valour of the

      Macedonians, which

      was invigorated by constant service in the field. They were not, however, in

      defeat,

      unmindful of their ancient valour; for, falling with wounds in front, they

      all covered the

      places which they had been charged by their leaders to defend, with their

      dead bodies. This

      day put an end to the glorious sovereignty and ancient liberty of all

      Greece… War being

      at an end in Greece, Philip directed deputies from all the states to be

      summoned to

      Corinth, to settle the condition of affairs. Here he fixed terms of peace

      for the whole of

      Greece, according to the merits of each city; and chose from them all a

      council, to form a

      senate as it were for the country. But the Lacedaemonians, standing alone,

      showed contempt

      alike for the terms and the king; regarding the state of things, which had

      not been agreed

      upon by the cities themselves, but forced upon them by a conqueror, as a

      state, not of

      peace, but of slavery. The number of troops to be furnished by each state

      was then

      determined, whether the king, in case of being attacked, was to be supported

      by their

      united force, or whether war was to be made on any other power under him as

      their general.

      In all these preparations for war it was not to be doubted that the kingdom

      of Persia was

      the object in view. The sum of the force was two hundred thousand infantry

      and fifteen

      thousand cavalry. Exclusive of this number there was also the army of

      Macedonia, and the

      adjacent barbarians of the conquered nations. »
      Macedonian troops are not counted among the blood tax Philip exacted from

      Greece just like

      the ADJACENT BARBARIANS are not. His victory is SLAVERY TO ALL GREECE, and

      her men his

      puppets.
      «To Philip succeeded his son Alexander… The father would dissemble his

      resentment, and

      often subdue it; when the son was provoked, there was neither delay nor

      bounds to his

      vengeance. … A battle often sent away Philip wounded; Alexander often left a

      banquet

      stained with the blood of his companions. The one wished to reign with his

      friends, the

      other to reign over them. The one preferred to be loved, the other to be

      feared.» Im sure

      the Greeks breathed relief…. NOT!
      «Such an arrangement being made, Antipater was appointed governor of

      Macedonia and Greece;

      the charge of the royal treasure was given to Craterus;» Enough said.
      «AFTER the death of Pyrrhus, there were great warlike commotions, not only

      in Macedonia,

      but in Asia and Greece» Greece, not the rest of Greece. Enough said

      ***************************************************

      I WILL gladly defend THE GREEKNESS OF MACEDONIA if IT IS INDEED HISTORICAL.

      PERSONALLY I

      WANT TO. HOWEVER EVERY ANCIENT SOURCE I CAN FIND DISAGREES.

      I will not lie just cause you have slandered me and threatened to rape and

      kill me. No

      GREEK runs and hides from barbarous thugs. NOR DO WE NEED TO STEAL OTHER

      PEOPLES’ HISTORY,

      WHEN WE HAVE SO MUCH AWESOME HISTORY OF OUR OWN.

      FINALLY —JUST TO CLARIFY…

      THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE NAMING RIGHTS. IF MACEDONIA WAS GREEK, AS FAS AS

      IM CONCERNED,

      NO, THEY DO NOT GET TO USE THE NAME. FINIS. AND IF THEY DONT LIKE IT, F

      THEM.

      THE ISSUE IS THAT AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT NEVER WAS. I WOULD LOVE FOR THIS

      TO BE PROVED

      WRONG. SOMETHING YOU CAN ONLY DO WITH AT LEAST AS MUCH IN ANCIENT SOURCES

      THAT STATE THE

      OPPOSITE.

      TO DATE, YOU HAVE DENIED MY GREEK IDENTITY BECAUSE IT SUITS YOU — JUST SO

      YOU KNOW,

      BUDDIES, IM PURER-BLOODED GREEK THAN A FEW OF YOU, AND MY KIDS WILL BE GREEK

      ON BOTH SIDES

      TOO-

      AND ALL YOU PRODUCE IS SLANDER, ACCUSATIONS, THREATS OF RAPE VIOLENCE AND

      DEATH IF I DONT

      SHUT UP AND STOP STUDYING, A PERFECTLY USELESS UNSOURCED BLOG, AND

      ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT

      EVEN TRIES TO PROVE ANYTHING.

      Μου αρέσει!

    • © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said

      Μίλα καλύτερα, έτσι;
      Γλώσσα μου είναι η ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ.
      Πάσα άλλη με χαλάει.

      Αρέσει σε 1 άτομο

  3. © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™. said

    ….Ούτε οι Μακεδόνες ήταν ΈΛληνες.
    Μάστα!

    Άκου βλακάκο:
    Πριν ξεκινήσεις τις παρόλες σου κάλλιον το να πληροφορηθείς κάποια πράγματα,
    όχι για άλλο λόγο,
    παρά για να μην εκτίθεσαι χάνοντας ό,ποια αξιοπιστία (…για την οποίαν à propos κρίνω ότι δεν…)… διαθέτεις.
    Κρίνεσαι από χέρι καμμένο χαρτί όταν ξεκινάς γράφοντας το παραπάνω.
    Φυσικά για να κατανοήσεις χρειάζεται περαιτέρω γνώση για την οποίαν κρίνω επίσης,
    απ΄ ότι φαίνεται πως δεν διαθέτεις.

    Πάμε Ιστορικά.
    Τι υπάρχει, τι έχει καταγραφεί.
    Ο Ηρόδοτος λέει: —» Της μεν πρότερον ΕΛΛΑΣ ΠΕΛασγίοι καλεομένης».
    Τι σημαίνει αυτό;
    Οι ΠΕΛασγοί πρόγονοί μας ανάλογα με την εγκατάσταση στην πατρώα γη πήρανε έτι περαιτέρω διευκρινιστικότερα ονόματα ώστε να διευκολύνονται στις συνεννοήσεις τους.
    Σαν όπως λέμε σήμερα Κρητικός, Πελοποννήσιος, Κυκλαδίτης ή Θραξ, Ηπειρώτης, Μακεδών κτλ έτσι λοιπόν τότε αντίστοιχα υπήρξαν οι Μολοσσοί (ήσαν στην Ήπειρο), Μυκηναίοι, Μακεδόνες, Θράκες, Ιλλυριοί κτλ για να μην μπούμε στην διαδικασία των Δωριαίων, Ιώνων, ενώ υπήρξαν Αιολείς, Αχαιοί μα & προ αυτών όλων όπως π.χ. των Δαναών, Λυκίων κτλ.
    Απ ότι βλέπεις μπετοβλακάκο υπάρχει μιά διαδοχική αρμονική συμμετοχή και φυσικά συνέχεια.
    Πώς από αυτή κυρίως πού βλέπεις ότι απουσιάζουν οι ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΕΣ ώστε να τους διαγράφεις από την Ιστορική συνέχεια των ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ, κομμάτι της οποίας και τμήμα αδιαίρετον αποτΕΛούσαν ανέκαθεν οι ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ.
    Μα πόσο βλάκας;
    Πόθεν δηλαδή εσύ εξήγαγες του συμπέρασμα σου;
    Με άριστα το δέκα -10- στην ανοησία εσύ το ξεπέρασες.
    Πήρες 11- ΙΙ.
    Άντε βοήθειά σου.

    Αρέσει σε 1 άτομο

    • ΙΣΤΟΡΙΚΑ ΔΕΔΟΜΕΝΑ, Όπως Καταγράφονται Στην Αρχαία ΕΛληνική Γραμματεία Μας said

      © ΧƦΙσ†☺Ϟ ®™, όσο και να λες, ΟΛΟΙ οι αρχαίοι ΠΡΟΓΟΝΟΙ ΜΑΣ που ζούσαν σε αυτήν την εποχή είπαν το αντίθετο, οπότε, είτε είσαι φανατικός παραχαράκτης,
      ή νομίζεις ότι έχεις μια μηχανή του χρόνου, και ξέρεις καλυτέρα από τους αρχαίους, οπότε είσαι τρελός.

      Επίλεξε … προσεκτικός.

      «οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ᾽ ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι.»

      «ὁ δὲ τὸν μὲν τόπον τὸν Ἑλληνικὸν ὅλως εἴασε, τὴν δ᾽ ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ βασιλείαν κατασχεῖν ἐπεθύμησεν: ἠπίστατο γὰρ τοὺς μὲν Ἕλληνας οὐκ εἰθισμένους ὑπομένειν τὰς μοναρχίας, τοὺς δ᾽ ἄλλους οὐ δυναμένους ἄνευ τῆς τοιαύτης δυναστείας διοικεῖν τὸν βίον τὸν σφέτερον αὐτῶν.»

      Μου αρέσει!

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