olympia.gr

Για την Ελλάδα με όπλο την αλήθεια. Μαθαίνοντας τη φύση, την κοινωνία, τον εαυτό μας. Μαθαίνοντας ξανά να ζούμε! Ecology is not just a trend. It's Life itself. Ecosophy: The Olympian Way. 奥林山方式

Οι αρχαίοι Μακεδόνες θεωρούσαν και ονόμαζαν τον εαυτό τους Έλληνες

Posted by IGOR στο Φεβρουαρίου 6, 2018


Σε επιστολή του προς τον ηττημένο βασιλιά της Περσίας Δαρείο ο Μέγας Αλέξανδρος, τη στιγμή που έχει συντρίψει για δεύτερη φορά τον πολυάριθμο περσικό στρατό στη μάχη της Ισσού, διατρανώνει ότι
Η Μακεδονία είναι κομμάτι της Ελλάδας.
Και ότι ό ίδιος είναι ηγεμόνας των Ελλήνων.

«Οι πρόγονοί σου, λέγει στον Δαρείο, εισέβαλαν στη Μακεδονία και την υπόλοιπη Ελλάδα («εις Μακεδονίαν και εις την άλλην Ελλάδα», [άρα χωρίς τη Μακεδονία είναι μισή και όχι ολόκληρη η Ελλάδα]) και μας προξένησαν καταστροφές, χωρίς εμείς να τους έχουμε κάμει προηγουμένως κανένα κακό· «εγώ δε των Ελλήνων ηγεμών κατασταθείς» (=αφού εμένα οι Έλληνες με όρισαν για αρχηγό τους) εισέβαλα στην Ασία, επειδή ήθελα να τιμωρήσω τους Πέρσες, εφόσον εσείς πρώτοι αρχίσατε τις εχθροπραξίες» (Αρριανού, Αλεξάνδρου Ανάβασις, 2, 14, 4).

Αλλά και κατά τη μάχη του Γρανικού ποταμού που είχε προηγηθεί, είχε συλλάβει αιχμαλώτους Έλληνες μισθοφόρους που πολεμούσαν με το μέρος των Περσών. Αυτούς ο Αλέξανδρος απέστειλε δεμένους με χειροπέδες στη Μακεδονία για να δουλεύουν ως σκλάβοι, επειδή, παρά τις κοινές αποφάσεις των Ελλήνων (και όχι Μακεδόνων και Ελλήνων) και μολονότι ήταν Έλληνες, πολέμησαν για χάρη των βαρβάρων κατά της Ελλάδας (και όχι ειδικά κατά της Μακεδονίας).

Πουθενά δηλαδή δεν διαστέλλονται οι Μακεδόνες από τους άλλους Έλληνες. Και από τα λάφυρα της μάχης έστειλε ο Αλέξανδρος τριακόσιες ασπίδες-αφιέρωμα στον Παρθενώνα με το επίγραμμα: «Αλέξανδρος και οι Έλληνες (πλην Λακεδαιμονίων)» από τα λάφυρα των βαρβάρων που κατοικούν την Ασία (Αρριανός, 1, 16, 6-7).

Ο Μέγας Αλέξανδρος και οι Μακεδόνες του είχαν πλήρη συνείδηση ότι ήταν Έλληνες.
Ελλάδα είναι και η Μακεδονία, βοούν οι πρόγονοί μας Έλληνες (Στράβων).

Ακούμε οι Νεοέλληνες;

π. Δημητρίου Μπόκου
vimaorthodoxias.gr

20 Σχόλια to “Οι αρχαίοι Μακεδόνες θεωρούσαν και ονόμαζαν τον εαυτό τους Έλληνες”

  1. velos said

    HELLAS: THIS IS THE TRUTH…!!!
    https://ello.co/velos/post/hz2wkmoic0qybgsehuth3a

    Μου αρέσει!

    • Chris, a pureblooded Greek said

      STILL WAITING FOR ANY!!! OF YOU TO PROVIDE ANY!!!! ORIGINAL HISTORICAL ANCIENT TEXTS THAT I

      CAN USE TO SUPPPORT THE HISTORICITY OF THE «GREEK» MACEDONIA. I ASSUME OF THE MILLIONS

      OFPEOPLE WHO CARE ENOUGH TO GO TO A DEMONSTRATION AT LEAST A PERCENT WILL BROWSE THIS SITE.

      I ASSUME OF YOU THOUSANDS AT LEASE A TENTH OF A PERCENT HAVE SOME!!!!!! HISTORICAL BACKING

      FOR YOUR HISTORICAL STANCE.

      IF YOU CARE AT ALL FOR GREECE, PLEASE SHARE IT!!!!!!! TIME IS SHORT SO I WILL ASK AGAIN

      UNTIL AN ANSWER IS FOUND BECAUSE I RATHER DEAL WITH YOUR HOLSTILITY THAN BE FORCED TO

      CONCLUDE FROM OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE THAT MACEDONIA WAS NEVER GREEK AT ALL.

      DONT TELL ME I DIDNT DO MY HOMEWORK. A FRACTION OF IT IS BELOW.

      I HAVE READ EVERY ANCIENT WRITER I CAN FIND AND NONE!!!!!!! SUPPORT MACEDONIA EVER BEING

      GREEK. NOR DOES ANY PRE-1910S MODERN HISTORIAN. NOR DOES KARAGATSIS WHOSE GREEK HISTORY

      BOOK WAS BANNED BY THE GOVT.

      MODERN BLOGS ARE USELESS UNLESS THEY HAVE ANCIENT WRITERS AS SOURCES. YOUR HYSTERIA AND

      EMAILED DEATH-THREATS ARE NOT OF BENEFIT TO MOTHER GREECE NOR DO THEY PROVE ANYTHING. IF

      YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU CLAIM, TAKE THE TIME TO POST SOURCED HISTORICAL INFORMATION

      WHICH SOMEONE OF YOU MUST HAVE TO BE SO CONVINCED!!!!!.

      A LITTLE OF MY HOMEWORK, just so you cannot accuse me of lying, as you do so frequently

      (more than you read in your lifetimes?????):

      ARISTOLE (Thx 2 a fellow blogger. Verified in Aristotle Politics):
      «in Sparta and Crete both the system of education and the mass of the laws are framed in

      the main with a view to war; and also among all the nations that are strong enough to

      expand at the expense of others, military strength has been held in honor, for example,

      among the Scythians, Persians, Thracians and Celts. Indeed among some peoples there are

      even certain laws stimulating military valor; for instance at Carthage, we are told,

      warriors receive the decoration of armlets of the same number as the campaigns on which

      they have served; and at one time there was also a law in Macedonia that a man who had

      never killed an enemy must wear his halter instead of a belt. Among Scythian tribes at a

      certain festival a cup was carried round from which a man that had not killed an enemy was

      not allowed to drink. Among the Iberians, a warlike race, they fix small spits in the earth

      round a man’s grave corresponding in number to the enemies he has killed. So with other

      races there are many other practices of a similar kind, some established by law and others

      by custom.» Macedonians are listed among foreign RACES not Greek Poleis. Its Scythians

      Thracians Persans Macedonians Celts. NOT Crete Spata Macedonia.

      ********************************************************

      HERODOTUS:
      » Then Amyntas answered- «O, Persians! we have no such custom as this;
      but with us men and women are kept apart. Nevertheless, since you,
      who are our lords, wish it, this also shall be granted to you.»
      »
      But sex-segregation was not practiced by the Greeks afaik, ex, the symposiums. Amyntas is

      the Macedonian king

      «For when Alexander wished to contend in the games,
      and had come to Olympia with no other view, the Greeks who were about
      to run against him would have excluded him from the contest- saying
      that Greeks only were allowed to contend, and not barbarians. But
      Alexander proved himself to be an Argive, and was distinctly adjudged
      a Greek; after which he entered the lists for the foot-race, and was
      drawn to run in the first pair.» But why would a Macedonian be suspected of not being a

      Greek (Barbaros) if Macedonia was unequivocally Greek? Can anyone PLEASE cite for me a case

      where a Spartan or Theban etc was suspect like this?

      » No sooner therefore did he reach Sardis with
      the Paeonians than he said to Darius, «What mad thing is this that
      thou hast done, sire, to let a Greek, a wise man and a shrewd, get
      hold of a town in Thrace, a place too where there is abundance of
      timber fit for shipbuilding, and oars in plenty, and mines of silver,
      » But if Thrace was Greek, how can a Greek getting hold of a town in it be noteworthy?

      » they, being Thessalians, were the first
      of the Hellenes who gave themselves over to the king; for Xerxes
      thought that they offered him friendship on behalf of their whole
      nation.» Never mind the ‘friendship’ offered him by the Macedonians a page earlier.

      Xerxes bridged the Hellespont. What did he do? Fly over Epirus, Thrace and Macedonia?

      » Mardonios having read that which the Oracles uttered, whatever
      that was, after this sent as an envoy to Athens Alexander the son of
      Amyntas, the Macedonian,…. Now of this Alexander the seventh ancestor[108] was that
      Perdiccas who first became despot of the Macedonians, and that in the
      manner which here follows:–From Argos there fled to the Illyrians
      three brothers of the descendents of Temenos, Gauanes, Aëropos, and
      Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of
      Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia. There they became farmservants
      for pay in the household of the king, one pasturing horses,
      the second oxen, and the youngest of them, namely Perdiccas, the
      smaller kinds of cattle» So whatever Macedonians are, there are Illyrians between them and

      Greece?

      » the envoys from Sparta followed him forthwith and said: «… but let not
      Alexander the Macedonian persuade you, making smooth the speech of
      Mardonios; for these things are fitting for him to do, since being
      himself a despot he is working in league with a despot: for you
      however they are not fitting to do, if ye chance to be rightly minded;
      for ye know that in Barbarians there is neither faith nor truth at
      all.» So whatever Alexander is, Sparta is not impressed. The issue cannot be kingship as

      Sparta had kings. Also, why is BarbarianS plural. Mardonius is one, and it is from earlier

      in Alexander’s speech a personal offer.

      » And in the future do not thou appear before the Athenians with any such proposals as

      these, nor think that thou art rendering them good service in advising them to do
      that which is not lawful; for we do not desire that thou shouldest
      suffer anything unpleasant at the hands of the Athenians, who art
      their public guest and friend.» . To Alexander they thus made
      answer, but to the envoys from Sparta as follows: «That the
      Lacedemonians should be afraid lest we should make a treaty with the
      Barbarian was natural no doubt, but it seems to be an unworthy
      fear for … there is the bond of
      Hellenic race, by which we are of one blood and of one speech, the
      common temples of the gods and the common sacrifices, the manners of
      life which are the same for all;» So there is a blood bond with the Spartans but the

      Macedonian is just a guest?

      ********************************************************
      STRABO:

      » From Brentesium the sea is traversed by two passages to the opposite coast, one crossing

      to the Ceraunian Mountains and the adjacent coasts of the Epirus and Greece, the other to

      Epidamnus, which is the longer of the two, being 1800 stadia. Still this is habitually

      traversed, on account of the situation of the city being convenient for the nations of

      Illyria and Macedonia. » WTF? I’d say he means city-states, but nobody’s calling Illyria

      a Greek Polis, and they get the same treatment. So are we saying the nations of Greece and

      Italy? or the city-sates of Athens and Sparta? Because it doesn’t make sense to say the

      anything of Athens and Italy.

      » At the same time the Romans became masters of Africa, and of such portions of Spain as

      they won from the Carthaginians. Both the Greeks and the Macedonians, and the nations of

      Asia who dwelt on the hither side of the river Kizil-Irmak and the Taurus, took part in

      these struggles with the Carthaginians: » Again, why ‘Macedonians and Greeks’? Greek is a

      nationality, its not «Athenian» so isn’t Macedonian another nationality? We don’t say

      Athenians and Greeks.
      «There remains to be described that part of Europe included between the Danube and the sea

      which surrounds it, beginning from the inner recess of the Adriatic, and extending to the

      Sacred mouth of the Danube. This part contains Greece, Macedonia, Epirus, and the people

      who live above them, extending to the Danube and to the two seas (the Adriatic and the

      Euxine Sea) on each side. On the Adriatic are the Illyrians; on the Euxine Sea, as far as

      the Propontis and Hellespont, are the Thracians, and the Scythian or Keltic tribes

      intermixed with them. We must begin from the Danube, and treat of the countries which

      follow next in order to those already described, that is to say, the parts contiguous to

      Italy, the Alps, the Germans, the Dacians, and the Getæ.» Again, not say Phocis, Thessaly,

      Macedonia etc, but Greece, Macedonia, Epirus, Illyria, Thrace, Scythia… Nations, not

      city-states?
      » People formerly very powerful are extinct, or were reduced to the lowest condition, as

      the Boii and Scordisci among the Galatæ; the Autariatæ, Ardiæi, and Dardanii, among the

      Illyrians; and the Triballi among the Thracians. They first declined in consequence of

      disputes amongst themselves, but were finally prostrated by wars with the Macedonians and

      Romans.» Same issue here.
      «These are the nations, bounded by the Danube and by the Illyrian and Thracian mountains,

      which are worthy of record. They occupy the whole coast of the Adriatic Sea, beginning from

      the recess of the gulf, and the left side, as it is called, of the Euxine Sea, from the

      river Danube to Byzantium.
      The southern parts of the above-mentioned mountainous tract, and the countries which

      follow, lying below it, remain to be described. Among these are Greece, and the contiguous

      barbarous country extending to the mountains» I thought Greece extended to the mountains?

      My dad fought insurgents at Vitsi.
      » The country, from the commencement of the Macedonian and Pæonian mountains, as far as the

      river Strymon, is inhabited by Macedonians, and Pæones, and some of the Thracian mountain

      tribes. But all the country on the other side the Strymon, as far as the mouth of the

      Euxine Sea, and Mount Hæmus, belong to the Thracians, except the coast, which is occupied

      by Greeks, some of whom are settled on the Propontis, others on the Hellespont and on the

      Gulf Melas, and others on the Ægean Sea.» Again Greeks vs Macedonians, Thracians, etc.

      Clearly there are Greek colonies on the coast like Amphipolis, but the majority of the

      inland population is something else. Also, Athens NEVER made a colony on the shores of

      Argos or Corinth Sparta Mesenne Thessaly but they made Olynthus Amphipolis and dozens more

      on the coasts of Macedonia Epirus and Thrace. hm. weird.

      » Some say that, in the language of the Molotti and Thesprotæ, old women are called

      “peliæ,” and old men “pelii,” …. Among the Thesprotæ and Molotti old women are called

      “peliæ,” and old men “pelii,” as among the Macedonians. Persons at least who hold office

      are called “peligones,” as among the Laconians and Massilienses they are called

      “gerontes.”» Huh, so much for the same language.

      » There are many Greek tribes, but the chief people are equal in number to the Greek

      dialects with which we are acquainted, namely, four. Of these, the Ionic is the same as the

      ancient Attic; (for Iones was the former name of the inhabitants of Attica; from thence

      came the Iones who settled in Asia, and use the dialect now called Ionic;) the Doric was

      the same as the Æolic dialect, for all the people on the other side of the isthmus except

      the Athenians, the Megareans, and the Dorians about Parnassus, are even now called Æolians;

      it is probable that the Dorians, from their being a small nation, and occupying a most

      rugged country, and from want of intercourse [with the Æolians], no longer resemble that

      people either in language or customs, and, although of the same race, have lost all

      appearance of affinity. It was the same with the Athenians, who inhabiting a rugged country

      with a light soil, escaped the ravages of invaders. As they always occupied the same

      territory, and no enemy attempted to expel them, nor had any desire to take possession of

      it themselves, on this account they were, according to Thucydides, regarded as

      Autochthones, or an indigenous race. This was probably the reason, although they were a

      small nation, why they remained a distinct people with a distinct dialect.
      It was not in the parts only on the other side of the isthmus, that the Æolian nation was

      powerful, but those on this side also were formerly Æolians. They were afterwards

      intermixed first with Ionians who came from Attica, and got possession of Ægialus, and

      secondly with Dorians, who under the conduct of the Heracleidæ founded Megara and many of

      the cities in the Peloponnesus. The Iones were soon expelled by the Achæi, an Æolian tribe;

      and there remained in Peloponnesus the two nations, the Æolic and the Doric. Those nations

      then that had little intercourse with the Dorians used the Æolian dialect. (This was the

      case with the Arcadians and Eleians, the former of whom were altogether a mountain tribe,

      and did not share in the partition of the Peloponnesus; the latter were considered as

      dedicated to the service of the Olympian Jupiter, and lived for a long period in peace,

      principally because they were of Æolian descent, and had admitted into their country the

      army of Oxylus, about the time of the return of the Heracleidæ.) The rest used a kind of

      dialect composed of both, some of them having more, others less, of the Æolic dialect. Even

      at present the inhabitants of different cities use different dialects, but all seem to

      Dorize, or use the Doric dialect, on account of the ascendency of that nation. Such then

      is the number of the Grecian nations» Ok, where are the Macedonians Thracians and

      Epirotes?
      » Trœzen is sacred to Neptune, from whom it was formerly called Poseidonia. It is situated

      15 stadia from the sea. Nor is this an obscure city. In front of its harbour, called Pogon,

      lies Calauria, a small island, of about 30 stadia in compass. Here was a temple of Neptune,

      which served as an asylum for fugitives. It is said that this god exchanged Delos for

      Calauria with Latona, and Tænarum for Pytho with Apollo. Ephorus mentions the oracle

      respecting it:
      “It is the same thing to possess Delos, or Calauria,
      The divine Pytho, or the windy Tænarum.”
      There was a sort of Amphictyonic body to whom the concerns of this temple belonged,

      consisting of seven cities, which performed sacrifices in common. These were Hermon,

      Epidaurus, Ægina, Athenæ, Prasiæ, Nauplia, and Orchomenus Minyeius. The Argives contributed

      in behalf of Nauplia, and the Lacedæmonians in behalf of Prasiæ. The veneration for this

      god prevailed so strongly among the Greeks, that the Macedonians, even when masters of the

      country, nevertheless preserved even to the present time the privilege of the asylum, and

      were restrained by shame from dragging away the suppliants who took refuge at Calauria.

      Archias even, with a body of soldiers, did not dare to use force to Demosthenes, although

      he had received orders from Antipater to bring him alive, and all other orators he could

      find, who were accused of the same crimes. He attempted persuasion, but in vain, for

      Demosthenes deprived himself of life by taking poison in the temple.» So here is the full

      quote. The Macedonians are NOT among the amphictyony of states venerating this temple.

      They do respect the subjects religion, like the Romans with Zoroastrianism, but nowhere

      does it say they shared it.

      » Thebans, having vanquished the Lacedæmonians in two battles, disputed the sovereignty of

      Greece. Epaminondas, however, was killed, and they were disappointed in their hope of

      obtaining this supremacy. … Reduced by this war, and by the Macedonians, at the time they

      invaded Greece, they lost their city, which was afterwards restored to them, and rebuilt by

      the Macedonians themselves, who had razed it.» So when the Thebans fight other Geeks, it

      is a civil war, and attempting to seize sovereignty like a coup, but the Macedonians INVADE

      GREECE, FROM OUTSIDE.
      » such are the long tunics, which in tragedies are called Thessalian; they are fastened

      about the body with a girdle, and with a clasp on the shoulder. The tragedians, for they

      required some additional decoration of this kind, imitate the Thessalians in their attire.

      The Thessalians in particular, from wearing a long dress, (probably because they inhabit

      the most northerly and the coldest country in all Greece,) afforded the most appropriate

      subject of imitation to actors for their theatrical representations. » Again just like

      Herodotus, the Thessalians are the north-most of the Greeks. This is a problem.
      ******************************************************************

      PLUTARCH
      «Be that as it may, Alexander was born early in the month Hecatombaeon, the Macedonian

      name for which is Loüs, on the sixth day of the month, and on this day the temple of

      Ephesian Artemis was burnt. » So Macedonians had a different system for counting time and

      or language?
      » For it was neither every kind of fame nor fame from every source that he courted, as

      Philip did, who plumed himself like a sophist on the power of his oratory, and took care to

      have the victories of his chariots at Olympia engraved upon his coins; 10 nay, when those

      about him inquired whether he would be willing to contend in the foot-race at the Olympic

      games, since he was swift of foot, «Yes,» said he, «if I could have kings as my

      contestants.» And in general, too, Alexander appears to have been averse to the whole race

      of athletes» So according to Plutarch, the Olympics were not good enough for the prince.

      Did he actually try to compete?
      » Alexander, though only sixteen years of age… was also present at Chaeroneia and took

      part in the battle against the Greeks» This again. Not the other Greeks or the Thebans,

      Locrians….. the Greeks.
      » Then Philip rose up against him with drawn sword, but, fortunately for both, his anger

      and his wine made him trip and fall. Then Alexander, mocking over him, said: «Look now,

      men! here is one who was preparing to cross from Europe into Asia; and he is upset in

      trying to cross from couch to couch.» After this drunken broil Alexander took Olympias and

      established her in Epirus, while he himself tarried in Illyria.» Ok, even if Epirus was

      Greek, why does a Greek tarry in Illyria??
      «Thus it was that at the age of twenty years Alexander received the kingdom, which was

      exposed to great jealousies, dire hatreds, and dangers on every hand. For the neighboring

      tribes of Barbarians would not tolerate their servitude, and longed for their hereditary

      kingdoms; and as for Greece, although Philip had conquered her in the field, he had not had

      time enough to make her tame under his yoke, but had merely disturbed and changed the

      condition of affairs there, and then left them in a great surge and commotion, owing to the

      strangeness of the situation. The Macedonian counselors of Alexander had fears of the

      crisis, and thought he should give up the Greek states altogether and use no more

      compulsion there, and that he should call the revolting Barbarians back to their allegiance

      by mild measures and try to arrest the first symptoms of their revolutions» Where to

      start? Philip and Alexander did not ‘Unify’ Greece, they CONQUERED her, yoked her. Second,

      Alexander is urged to give up the Greek states, not the ‘Other’ Greek states.
      «…on learning that the Thebans had revolted and that the Athenians were in sympathy with

      them, he immediately led his forces through the pass of Thermopylae, declaring that since

      Demosthenes had called him a boy while he was among the Illyrians and Triballians, and a

      stripling when he had reached Thessaly, he wished to show him that before the walls of

      Athens he was a man.» As a boy he was in Illiria and Triballia. Hm.
      » But the Thebans made a counter-demand that he should surrender to them Philotas and

      Antipater, and made a counter-proclamation that all who wished to help in setting Greece

      free should range themselves with them.. and their city was taken, plundered, and razed to

      the ground. This was done, in the main, because Alexander expected that the Greeks would be

      terrified by so great a disaster and cower down in quiet» Well, nice dude. Also, again,

      the Greeks, not the other Greeks.
      » some Thracians broke into the house of Timocleia, a woman of high repute and chastity..

      shamefully violated her.. And when the Thracians led her, with hands bound, to

      Alexander… and when the king asked her who she was, she replied that she was a sister of

      Theagenes, who drew up the forces which fought Philip in behalf of the liberty of the

      Greeks, and fell in command at Chaeroneia.» Again, the Greeks, not the other Greeks.
      » And now, wishing to consult the god concerning the expedition against Asia, he went to

      Delphi; and since he chanced to come on one of the inauspicious days, when it is not lawful

      to deliver oracles, in the first place he sent a summons to the prophetess. And when she

      refused to perform her office and cited the law in her excuse, he went up himself and tried

      to drag her to the temple….» Clearly he respects Hellenic religion a great deal. Bull.
      » Many rushed upon Alexander, for he was conspicuous by his buckler and by his helmet’s

      crest, on either side of which was fixed a plume of wonderful size and whiteness. » Greeks

      had horsehair crests, not big white plumes, afaik.
      » Thaïs, an Athenian… said… it would be a still greater pleasure to go in revel rout

      and set fire to the house of the Xerxes who burned Athens, she herself kindling the fire

      under the eyes of Alexander, in order that a tradition might prevail among men that the

      women in the train of Alexander inflicted a greater punishment upon the Persians in behalf

      of Hellas than all her famous commanders by sea and land. » Alexander is not counted among

      Hellas’s famous commanders. Hm.
      «However, he said, he allowed those who wished it to go away, calling them to witness that

      while he was winning the inhabited world for the Macedonians he had been left behind with

      his friends and those who were willing to continue the expedition. This is almost word for

      word what he wrote in his letter to Antipater, and….. he chose out thirty thousand boys

      and gave orders that they should learn the Greek language and be trained to use Macedonian

      weapons, appointing many instructors for this work…. Moreover, when he saw that among his

      chiefest friends Hephaestion approved his course and joined him in changing his mode of

      life, while Craterus clung fast to his native ways, he employed the former in his business

      with the Barbarians, the latter in that with the Greeks and Macedonians. » Oh, so it is

      the Greek language and Macedonian weapons, and he’s ‘winning the inhabited world for the

      Macedonians.’ not the Greeks. Interesting.
      » Alexander rode up and abused Hephaestion publicly, calling him a fool and a madman for

      not knowing that without Alexander’s favour he was nothing; and in private he also sharply

      reproved Craterus. Then he brought them together and reconciled them, taking an oath by

      Ammon and the rest of the gods that he loved them most of all men; but that if he heard of

      their quarreling again, he would kill them both» So he sacrifices to an Egyptian god too.

      Are we to think he’s Egyptian now?
      «Do not the Greeks appear to you to walk about among Macedonians like demi-gods among wild

      beasts?» … Then Alexander, no longer able to restrain his anger, threw one of the apples

      that lay on the table at Cleitus and hit him, and began looking about for his sword. But

      one of his body-guards, Aristophanes, conveyed it away before he could lay his hands on it,

      and the rest surrounded him and begged him to desist, whereupon he sprang to his feet and

      called out in Macedonian speech a summons to his corps of guards» So there’s Greek

      Language and Macedonian Speech???

      » Callisthenes … the sophist went about with lofty thoughts as if bent on abolishing a

      tyranny, and that the young men flocked to him and followed him… Alexander himself, in

      the letters which he wrote at once to Craterus, Attalus, and Alcetas, says that the youths

      confessed under torture that they had made this attempt of themselves, and that no one else

      was privy to it. But in a letter written later to Antipater, wherein he accuses

      Callisthenes also of the crime, he says: «The youths were stoned to death by the

      Macedonians, but the sophist I will punish, together with those who sent him to me and

      those who harbour in their cities men who conspire against my life;» » Since when did

      Greeks kill people by stoning???
      «While Demosthenes was still in exile, Alexander died in Babylon, and the Greek states

      combined yet again to form a league against Macedon. Demosthenes attached himself to the

      Athenian convoys, and threw all his energies into helping them incite the various states to

      attack the Macedonians and drive them out of Greece.» Not back into Macedonia… Out of

      Greece. Last I heard, you could drive pestilent Texans back into Texas, not out of the US.
      ******************************************************
      THUCYDIDES:
      » Perdiccas, son of Alexander, king of the Macedonians, had from an old friend and ally

      been made an enemy. He had been made an enemy by the Athenians entering into alliance with

      his brother Philip and Derdas, who were in league against him. In his alarm he had sent to

      Lacedaemon to try and involve the Athenians in a war with the Peloponnesians, and was

      endeavouring to win over Corinth in order to bring about the revolt of Potidaea.» Oh, how

      philhellenic of him.
      «Leaving these two towns to prepare together against the speedy arrival of the Athenians,

      Brasidas and Perdiccas started on a second joint expedition into Lyncus against Arrhabaeus;

      the latter with the forces of his Macedonian subjects, and a corps of heavy infantry

      composed of Hellenes domiciled in the country… . In all there were about three thousand

      Hellenic heavy infantry, accompanied by all the Macedonian cavalry.» Again. Macedonians and

      (not other) Hellenes. Hm
      **************************************************************
      PAUSANIAS:

      «It was Leosthenes who, at the head of
      the Athenians and all the Greeks, defeated the Macedonians in
      Boeotia and again outside Thermopylae ; and after overpowering
      them shut them up in Lamia, over against Oeta.» All the Greeks vs the Maconians. Hm.

      «For the disaster at Chaeronea was the beginning of evil to
      all the Greeks ; and the yoke of slavery which it brought with it
      pressed not least heavily on the states that had held aloof or had
      sided with Macedonia. Most of the cities Philip captured. With
      the Athenians he nominally made a treaty, but in reality he inflicted
      on them the deepest injuries of all, for he wrested islands from them
      and deposed them from the empire of the sea. For a time the
      Athenians kept quiet during the reign of Philip and afterwards of
      Alexander. But when Alexander died and the Macedonians chose
      Aridaeus king, though the whole government was vested in Anti-
      pater, the Athenians could no longer brook the thought that Greece
      should for ever be at the feet of Macedonia ; so they were bent on
      war and stirred up others to action. 4. The cities that joined them 4
      were these : in Peloponnese there were Argos, Epidaurus, Sicyon,
      Troezen, Elis, Phlius, Messene ; outside the Isthmus of Corinth
      there were the Locrians, Phocians, Thessalians, Carystians, and the
      Acarnanians who belonged to the Aetolian League…»

      » The name Gauls came into vogue late,
      for of old the people were called Celts both by themselves and others.
      A host of them mustered and marched towards the Ionian Sea :
      they dispossessed the Illyrian nation and the Macedonians, as well
      as all the intervening peoples, and overran Thessaly. When they
      were come near to Thermopylae most of the Greeks awaited» Thermopylae and Thessaly are

      places. Illyians, Macedonians and Greeks are ethnicities, apparently.

      «But the shields of the Macedonians
      he dedicated to Zeus at Dodona : they bear the inscription :

      These shields once laid waste the golden Asian land,
      These shields brought slavery upon the Greeks ;

      But now they hang ownerless on the pillars Aqueous Zeus,
      Spoils of the boastful Macedon.» Again, the Greeks, not the Other Greeks.

      «The Athenians replied that they would never join the
      Messenians in invading Laconia, but if the Lacedaemonians began
      the war and marched against Messenia, the Athenians promised to
      stand by the Messenians. At last the Messenians formed an alliance
      with Philip, son of Amyntas, and the Macedonians ; and they say it
      was this which prevented them from taking part in the battle of
      Chaeronea. But, on the other hand, they would not draw sword
      against Greece. When after the death of Alexander the Greeks took 3
      up arms against Macedonia for the second time, the Messenians
      shared in the war» So the Messenians would side with Athens against Sparta, an inter-Greek

      affair, but to fight alongside the Macedonians at Chaeronia would have been raising the

      sword AGAINST GREECE as a whole. Hm.

      «the native town of Pulydamas, is now
      no longer inhabited… it happened that they were holding a public assembly. So Alexander

      surrounded them with targeteers and archers, and shot them all down, and he butchered all

      the rest of the men, and sold
      the women and children in order to pay his mercenaries… The
      handful that escaped abode for a little while

      Μου αρέσει!

      • Chris, a pureblooded Greek said

        in the city, but after- wards they too were obliged, by their weak and forlorn condition, to abandon it at the time when God visited the whole Greek nation with a second overthrow in the war with Macedonia» Enough said.

        » the Achaeans deeply resented the
        conduct of Flamininus… They foresaw also that, like the rest of
        Greece, they were only about to exchange the dominion of Macedonia for that of Rome.» Macedonians, Romans. Potato Potaho.

        «For in a battle with the Romans, under Flamininus, on the
        heights called Cynoscephalae, Philip … was so
        soundly beaten that he lost most of his army, and had to enter into
        an engagement with the Romans, in virtue of which he withdrew
        his garrisons from every Greek city which he had reduced by force
        of arms.» Enough said.

        «Cassander, son of
        Antipater…hunted to death the whole house of Alexander : he flung
        Olympias to the infuriated Macedonians to be stoned by them to
        death; and he poisoned Alexander’s sons, Hercules whom Alexander
        had by Barsina, and Alexander whom he had by Roxana» Again with the stoning. This is dysfunctional for Greek royal politics.

        » About fifteen
        furlongs to the right of the city is the sanctuary of Ptoan Apollo.
        The poet Asius says that Ptous, after whom Apollo and the
        mountain were named, was a son of Athamas and Themisto.
        Before the invasion of the Macedonians under Alexander and the
        destruction of Thebes there was an infallible oracle here.» Alexander so respects the Greek religion that he destroyed an oracle of Apollo. Hm. Looting temples was extremely rare in Greek civil war. Oracles? unheard of afaik.

        » Brennus and Acichorius commanded the army destined to attack Paeonia while Bolgius marched against the Macedonians and Illyrians, and
        engaged in conflict with Ptolemy, then king of Macedonia…. Ptolemy himself fell in the battle, and the Macedonian loss was heavy ; but again the Celts had not the courage to march against Greece, and so the
        second expedition returned home again.» Celts invade Macedonia, not a part of Greece, apparently. Unfortunately they did end up invading Greece and apparently ATE their victims.

        » The spirit of the Greeks had fallen very low, but the very
        excess of their fear roused them to the necessity of defending
        Greece… safety was not to be had by a gift of water and earth ; for the fate that had over- taken the Macedonians, Thracians, and Paeonians in the former inroad of the Gauls was still fresh in their memory… Death or victory, that was the alternative that every man and every state prepared to face. » Greeks apparently doesn’t include Macedonians, Thracians, and Paeonians.

        ******************************************************************
        ARRIAN of NICOMEDIA:

        «Then indeed the Thebans, no longer defending
        themselves, were slain… in their
        houses, having there turned to defend themselves from
        the enemy, and others were slain as they were supplicating
        the protection of the gods in the temples ; not
        even the women and children being spared.» Alexander sure respected Greek religious sanctity….

        «.. the complete enslavement
        of Thebes… was attributed not without probability to the avenging wrath
        of the deity. It seemed as if the Thebans had after a long time suffered this punishment for their betrayal of the Greeks in the Median war» Those Greeks who side with Persians against Leonidas and Themistocles are denounced as traitors by Arrian. Those Greeks who side with Persians against Alexander are just mercenaries as below…. Hm.

        » Having settled these affairs, he returned into Macedonia.
        He then offered to the Olympian Zeus the sacrifice which
        had been instituted by Archelaus and had been customary
        up to that time; and he celebrated the public
        contest of the Olympic games at Aegae.^ » So sacrifice to Zeus not practiced in Macedonia before Alexander’s grand-dad, a known «philhellene», and isnt that funny. Byron was a Philhellene, Kolokotronis a Patriot….
        Also, why isn’t Alexander celebrating in Olympia?

        » At the beginning of the spring he marched
        towards the Hellespont, entrusting the affairs of Macedonia
        and Greece to Antipater. He led not much above 30,000 infantry together with light-armed troops and archers, and more than 5,000 cavalry.^ »

        » Besides, he did not wish to
        deliver over to the foreigners on so unstable an element
        the advantage which the Macedonians derived from their
        skill and courage; and if they were beaten in the seabattle,
        their defeat would be no small hindrance to their
        final success in the war, both for other reasons, and
        especially because the Greeks, being animated with
        courage at the news of his naval defeat, would attempt to
        effect a revolution. …. Then the Macedonians from all
        sides pressed close upon the citizens and the Grecian
        mercenaries, who took to flight ; some of them, casting
        themselves into the sea»

        » Alexander … led out the Macedonians and slew those who
        were still engaged in setting fire to the city. But
        he issued orders to preserve all the Halicarnassians who
        should be taken in their houses. As soon as the daylight
        appeared he could discern the strongholds which
        the Persians and the Grecian mercenaries had occupied;
        but he decided not to besiege them, considering that he »

        » Some of the Macedonians who served in Alexander’s
        army had married … and therefore sent them back from Caria
        to spend the winter in Macedonia with their wives…
        He gave these officers instructions to levy as many horse
        and foot soldiers as they could from the country… He also sent Cleander, son of Polemocrates, to levy soldiers in Peloponnesus, and Parmenio to
        Sardis, giving him the command of a regiment of the
        Cavalry Companions, the Thessalian cavalry, and the rest
        of the Grecian allies» Volunteer army? More like a blood tax

        » Here an embassy reached Alexander from the
        Athenians, beseeching him to release to them the Athenian
        prisoners who … were then in
        Macedonia serving in chains …. The envoys departed
        without obtaining their request on behalf of the prisoners
        for the present. For Alexander did not think it safe,
        whilst the war against the Persian was still going on, to
        relax in the slightest degree the terror with which he
        inspired the Greeks» So Philhellenic

        » But as soon as Darius was certified of Alexander’s
        approach for battle, he conveyed about 30,000 of his
        cavalry and with them 20,000 of his light-armed infantry
        across the river Pinarus, in order that he might be able
        to draw up the rest of his forces with ease. Of the heavy
        armed infantry, he placed first the 30,000 Greek mercenaries
        to oppose the phalanx of the Macedonians, and
        on both sides of these he placed 60,000 of the men called
        Cardaces, who were also heavy-armed infantry………………..
        ……………………………………..
        and here Alexanderand his men won a brilliant victory. … Here then the struggle was
        desperate ; the aim of the Greek mercenaries of Darius
        being to push the Macedonians back into the river, and
        regain the victory, though their own forces were already
        flying; the aim of the Macedonians being not to fall
        short of Alexander’s good-fortune, which was already
        manifest, and not to tarnish the glory of the phalanx,
        which up to that time had been commonly asserted to be
        invincible. Moreover the feeling of rivalry which existed
        between the Grecian and Macedonian races inspired each
        side in the conflict. Hereupon the regiments on the right wing, perceiving
        that the Persians opposed to them had already been put
        to rout, wheeled round towards the Grecian mercenaries
        of Darius and their own hard-pressed detachment. Having
        driven the Greeks away from the river, they extended
        their phalanx beyond the Persian army on the side which
        had been broken ; and attacking the Greeks on the flank,
        were already beginning to cut them up. However the
        Persian cavalry which had been posted opposite the
        Thessalians did not remain on the other side of the river –
        during the struggle, but came through the water and
        made a vigorous attack upon the Thessalian squadrons…. for the Persians
        did not give way until they perceived that Darius
        had fled and the Grecian mercenaries had been cut up by
        the phalanx and severed from them. »

        » Alexander said that he wished to take vengeance on the Persians,
        in retaliation for their deeds in the invasion of Greece,
        when they razed Athens to the ground and burnt down
        the temples. But
        Alexander does not seem to me to have acted on this
        occasion with prudence j nor do I think that this was
        any retributive penalty at all on the ancient Persians.» Arrian doesn’t believe Alexander’s excuse. Seeing how Alexander liked to terrorize Greece, how can we disagree?

        » When Alexander reached ecbatana, he sent the Thessalian
        cavalry and the other Grecian allies back to the
        sea,» Oh, so when its the Thesallians it’s them and THE OTHER GREEKS, but when it’s the Macedonian, it’s the and THE GREEKS. Ta efkolos enoumena???

        » Such was the end of Darius, in the archonship of Aristophon
        at Athens, in the month Hecatombaion. This king was .. involved in a war with the Macedonians and Greeks at the very time he succeeded
        to the regal power and consequently it was no longer
        possible for him to act the tyrant towards his subjects
        even if he had been so inclined, standing as he did in
        greater danger than they.»

        » Alexander was induced to indulge his
        desire of emulating the Median and Persian wealth and
        to treat his subjects as inferior beings according to the
        custom of the foreign kings. Nor do I by any means
        commend him for changing the Macedonian style of dress
        which his fathers had adopted, for the Median one,»
        Not «our style of dress», the «macedonian» one

        » As Clitus did not desist from his insulting remarks,
        Alexander …snatched a javelin from one of his confidential bodyguards
        … with which he struck Clitus and killed him.» No Spartan king would stoop to that level.

        » Anaxarchus commenced the discussion by saying that
        he considered Alexander much more worthy of being
        deemed a god than either Dionysus or Heracles, not only
        on account of the very numerous and mighty exploits which he had performed but also because Dionysus was only a Theban, in no way related to Macedonians ; and
        Heracles was an Argive, not at all related to them,
        except that Alexander deduced his descent from him.
        He added that the Macedonians might with greater justice
        gratify their king with divine honors,» So much for respecting Greek divinities. Also even if Alexander CLAIMED Argive Descent (And Hitler Greek, so? Actions… Actions), the Macedonians feel no kinship. Also, which Greeks in that century deified Kings? Nobody. God Leonidas anyone??

        » But Callisthenes
        interposed and said… I demand, Alexander… make
        up thy mind whether thou wilt return thither and compel
        the Greeks, who are men most devoted to freedom, to pay
        .
        thee the honor of prostration, or whether thou wilt keep
        aloof from Greece, and inflict this honor on the Macedonians
        alone» Greeks (in all poleis) are freedom-loving. Macedonians arent. Enough said.

        «These reports excited
        in Alexander an ardent desire to advance farther ;
        but the spirit of the Macedonians now began to flag… he called a
        council of the officers of the brigades and addressed
        them as follows :
        » … if as the result of these labours,
        you hold possession of Ionia, the Hellespont… the Phrygias, Cappadocia, Patagonia, Lydia, Caria, Lycia,Pamphylia, Phoenicia, Egypt together with Greek part of Libya….. why do ye shrink from adding the Hyphasis also, and the nations beyond this river, to the Macedonian empire?…… But what great or glorious deed could we have performed,
        if, sitting at ease in Macedonia, we had thought it
        sufficient to preserve our own country without any labour,
        simply repelling the attacks of the nations on our frontiers,
        the Thracians, Illyrians, and Triballians, or even
        those Greeks who were unfriendly to our interests ?» Macedonian empire. Apparently taking away from Greece the Greek part of Libya. Enough said. Greeks Illyrians and Tribalians are clearly races/nations and potential enemies to Macedonians. Are we supposed to somehow think at the same time Macedonians and Thracians are part of the Greeks?? Its Greeks again, not ‘other Greeks’ or our fellow Greeks/kinsmen in Sparta and Argos etc, a term that litters Thucydides Herodotus Plutarch etc in inter-city-state dialogue, even in the midst of bitter civil war. Oh yeah, Macedonians do not consider Argives kin…

        **********************************************************************

        DEMOSTHENES:

        » and when I find the same man using very different language about this plunderer of the Greeks, who is extending his power, as you see, at our very doors and in the heart of Greece, I am astonished, and, whoever he may be, it is I that fear him, just because he does not fear Philip. » Phillip the plunderer of the Greeks. Not the Ionians or the Dorians etc. The Greeks. A nation not a rabble of warring poleis.

        » But Philip, … has robbed the Pheraeans of their city… he is even now engaged in an expedition against Ambracia, and as for the three Elean colonies in Cassopia—Pandosia, Bucheta, and Elatea—he has wasted their land with fire, stormed their cities, and handed them over to be the slaves of his own kinsman, Alexander. How zealous he is for the freedom and independence of the Greeks, you may judge from his acts. » Enough said.

        » what has become manifest to all living men alike is this—that, in effect, the freedom of the whole Greek world was being preserved in the souls of these men. At any rate, since fate removed them, not one of those remaining has made a stand against the foe. While I desire that my words may be free from offence, it seems to me that if one should declare that the valor of these men was the very life of Greece he would speak the truth; for at one and the same time their spirits were separated from their dear bodies and the self-esteem of Greece was taken from her.» Funeral Oration at Chaeronea for those who died fighting Phillip. No orator ever declared all Greece enslaved and defiled when Athens Sparta or Thebes were running Greece despite the fury of those wars. If anyone has sources where they do, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide them

        » Olympias has made complaints against you about the incident at Dodona, complaints which are unfair, as I have twice already proved in the Assembly before yourselves and the rest of Athens. I explained to her envoys that the charges she brings against the city are not justified. For Zeus of Dodona commanded you through the oracle to embellish the statue of Dione. You made a face as beautiful as you could, together with all the other appropriate parts; and having prepared a great deal of expensive finery for the goddess and dispatched envoys with a sacrifice at great expense, you embellished the statue of Dione in a manner worthy of yourselves and of the goddess. These measures brought you the complaints of Olympias, who said in her letters that the country of Molossia, in which the temple stands, belonged to her, and that therefore we had no right to interfere with anything there at all. » Epirote? Mollosian? Olympias has such respect for Greek religious practice. How very Greek of her.

        » Not content with the destruction of cities, is he not organizing the Pythian games, the common festival of the Greeks, and if he cannot be present in person, sending his menials to act as stewards? Is he not master of Thermopylae and the passes into Greece, holding those places with his garrisons and his mercenaries? Has he not the right of precedence at the Oracle, ousting us and the Thessalians and the Dorians and the rest of the Amphictyons from a privilege which not even all Greek states can claim? Does he not dictate to the Thessalians their form of government? Does he not send mercenaries, some to Porthmus to expel the Eretrian democracy, others to Oreus to set up the tyranny of Philistides? Yet the Greeks see all this and suffer it. They seem to watch him just as they would watch a hailstorm, each praying that it may not come their way, but none making any effort to stay its course. And it is not only his outrages on Greece that go unavenged, but even the wrongs which each suffers separately. For nothing can go beyond that. Are not the Corinthians hit by his invasion of Ambracia and Leucas? The Achaeans by his vow to transfer Naupactus to the Aetolians? The Thebans by his theft of Echinus? And is he not marching even now against his allies the Byzantines? Of our own possessions, not to mention other places, is he not holding Cardia, the greatest city in the Chersonese? In spite of such treatment, we hesitate one and all, we play the coward, we keep an eye on our neighbors, distrusting one another rather than our common foe. Yet if he treats us all with such brutality, what do you think he will do when he has got each of us separately into his clutches?» If Phillip is Greek, why him organizing the Pythian Games and forcing his way into the Amphictyony via sacred war (like later some Roman states did too) MORE an insult to Greece than destroying her cities? AFAIK no Greek ever declared what any of Athens Sparta or Thebes did to other Greeks an «Outrage on Greece» as a nation DID THEY???

        » Philip, they say, after all is not yet what the Lacedaemonians were; they were masters of every sea and land » There is a theme here. Philip vs the Spartans. Not the Macedonians vs the Spartans, not Phillip vs Lysander. Demostheneses Greeks are citizens of poleis, Philip is a tribal monarch. Arrian earlier always calls Macedonians ‘Son of …» and (other????? does this still make sense) Greeks «so and so of Orchomenos» say. A significant social difference. Greeks are citizens, Macedonians tribal. Demosthenes talks the same.

        » To begin with ourselves, we must make provision for our defense, I mean with war-galleys, funds, and men; for even if all other states succumb to slavery, we surely must fight the battle of liberty. Then having completed all these preparations and made our purpose clear, … we must summon, collect, instruct, and exhort the rest of the Greeks… » Not the allies of Athens like in the civil wars, the REST OF THE GREEKS like when the Persians invaded.

        «I observe, however, that all men, and you first of all, have conceded to Philip something which has been the occasion of every war that the Greeks have ever waged. And what is that? The power of doing what he likes, of calmly plundering and stripping the Greeks one by one, and of attacking their cities and reducing them to slavery. Yet your hegemony in Greece lasted seventy-five years, that of Sparta twenty-nine, and in these later times Thebes too gained some sort of authority after the battle of Leuctra. But neither to you nor to the Thebans nor to the Lacedaemonians did the Greeks ever yet, men of Athens, concede the right of unrestricted action, or anything like it. On the contrary, when you, or rather the Athenians of that day, were thought to be showing a want of consideration in dealing with others, all felt it their duty, even those who had no grievance against them, to go to war in support of those who had been injured; and again, when the Lacedaemonians had risen to power and succeeded to your position of supremacy, and when they set to work to encroach on others and interfered unduly with the established order of things, all the Greeks were up in arms, even those who had no grievance of their own. Why need I refer to the other states? Nay, we ourselves and the Lacedaemonians, though at the outset we could not have specified any wrong at each other’s hands, thought it our duty to fight on account of wrongs which we saw the other states suffering. Yet all the faults committed by the Lacedaemonians in those thirty years, and by our ancestors in their seventy years of supremacy, are fewer, men of Athens, than the wrongs which Philip has done to the Greeks in the thirteen incomplete years in which he has been coming to the top—or rather, they are not a fraction of them. And this is easily proved by a short calculation. I pass over Olynthus and Methone and Apollonia and the two and thirty cities in or near Thrace, all of which Philip has destroyed so ruthlessly that a traveler would find it hard to say whether they had ever been inhabited. I say nothing of the destruction of the important nation of the Phocians. But how stands the case of the Thessalians? Has he not robbed them of their free constitutions and of their very cities, setting up tetrarchies in order to enslave them, not city by city, but tribe by tribe? Are not tyrannies already established in Euboea, an island, remember, not far from Thebes and Athens? Does he not write explicitly in his letters, “I am at peace with those who are willing to obey me”? And he does not merely write this without putting it into practice; but he is off to the Hellespont, just as before he hurried to Ambracia; in the Peloponnese he occupies the important city of Elis; only the other day he intrigued against the Megarians. Neither the Greek nor the barbarian world is big enough for the fellow’s ambition. And we Greeks see and hear all this, and yet we do not send embassies to one another and express our indignation. We are in such a miserable position, we have so entrenched ourselves in our different cities, that to this very day we can do nothing that our interest or our duty demands; we cannot combine, we cannot take any common pledge of help or friendship; but we idly watch the growing power of this man, each bent on profiting by the interval afforded by another’s ruin, taking not a thought, making not an effort for the salvation of Greece. For that Philip, like the recurrence or attack of a fever or some other disease, is threatening even those who think themselves out of reach, of that not one of you is ignorant. Ay, and you know this also, that the wrongs which the Greeks suffered from the Lacedaemonians or from us, they suffered at all events at the hands of true-born sons of Greece, and they might have been regarded as the acts of a legitimate son, born to great possessions, who should be guilty of some fault or error in the management of his estate: so far he would deserve blame and reproach, yet it could not be said that it was not one of the blood, not the lawful heir who was acting thus. But if some slave or superstitious bastard had wasted and squandered what he had no right to, heavens! how much more monstrous and exasperating all would have called it! Yet they have no such qualms about Philip and his present conduct, though he is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honor, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave. »

        The Spartans Athenians Thebans held HEGEMONY IN GREECE, even wronged other Greeks, but Philip committed OUTRAGES ON GREECE, not bunches of Greeks, but rather Greece herself. Also, Philip is savage by Greek standards of war «all of which Philip has destroyed so ruthlessly that a traveler would find it hard to say whether they had ever been inhabited» and he expects complete submission in a very unGreek way. And finally » Philip … is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honor, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave. »
        Cleary not all Greeks bought the Macedonian tyrants claims to Greek descent

        ===============================================================
        ISOCRATES:

        » and that, besides, you, beyond any of the Hellenes, were possessed of both wealth and power, which are the only things in the world that are adapted at once to persuade and to compel » Letter to Philip. He beyond any of the Greeks

        «But I must not shrink from telling you plainly of the discouragements I met with from some of my associates … “Think of it!” they said. “You are about to send an address which is intended to offer advice to Philip, a man who… has about him the ablest men in Macedonia, who, however inexperienced they may be in other matters, are likely to know better than you do what is expedient for him. Furthermore, you will find that there are many Hellenes living in his country, who are not unknown to fame or lacking in intelligence» If Macedonia is Greek, this is like saying we have a many Americans living in New York. We could say Texans in New York or Phocians in Athens or Greeks in America, but if one is nationality there other has to be too.

        » And the founder of your empire, although he aspired higher than did his fellow citizens and set his heart on a king’s power, was not minded to take the same road as others who set out to attain a like ambition. [107] For they endeavored to win this honor by engendering factions, disorder, and bloodshed in their own cities; he, on the other hand, held entirely aloof from Hellenic territory, and set his heart upon occupying the throne of Macedon. For he knew full well that the Hellenes were not accustomed to submit to the rule of one man, while the other races were incapable of ordering their lives without the control of some such power. And so it came about, owing to his unique insight in this regard, that his kingship has proved to be quite set apart from that of the generality of kings: for, because he alone among the Hellenes did not claim the right to rule over a people of kindred race, he alone was able to escape the perils incident to one-man power. For history discovers to us the fact that those among the Hellenes who have managed to acquire such authority have not only been destroyed themselves but have been blotted, root and branch, from the face of the earth; while he, on the contrary, lived a long and happy life and left his seed in possession of the same honors which he himself had enjoyed. » While Isocrates clearly likes Philip and is willing to run with the Argive descent claim (while trying to get the Athenians to submit to Philips rule but oh well he’s distantly descended from Argive royalty so that’s okay and generations of the Macedonians but lets not talk about it), Macedonians are not Greeks.

        *****************************************************************

        THRASYMACHUS (fragment, On Behalf of the Lariasaeans invaded by Macedonia)

        «Shall we being Greeks, be slaves to Archelaus, a barbarian?»

        *******************************************************************

        POLYBIUS:

        «My reason for writing about this war at such length, was the advisability, or rather necessity, in view of the general purpose of my history, of making clear the relations existing between Macedonia and Greece at a time which coincides with the period of which I am about to treat» Enough said.
        » After finishing the celebration of the Nemean games,
        King Philip of Macedon returned to Argos and laid aside his crown and purple robe, with the view of making a display of democratic equality and good nature. But the more democratic the dress which he wore, the more absolute and royal were the privileges which he claimed. He was not now content with seducing unmarried women, or even with intriguing with married women, but assumed the right of sending authoritatively for any woman whose appearance struck him; and offered violence to those who did not at once obey» How civilized.
        » the speech made by Agelaus of Naupactus in the first … “…O King. You will do this, if you abandon the policy of weakening the Greeks, and thus rendering them an easy prey to the invader; and consult on the contrary for their good as you would for your own person, and have a care for all parts of Greece alike, as if part and parcel of your own domains. If you act in this spirit, the Greeks will be your warm friends and faithful coadjutors in all your undertakings; while foreigners will be less ready to form designs against you, seeing with dismay the firm loyalty of the Greeks» Greece isnt part of Philips domains but if he treated her like instead of attacking her, much better all round. Again Greece, not the rest of Greece.

        » Flamininus nevertheless bade him speak on the matters he had come to consider. Philip however said that “The word was not with himself but with Flamininus; and therefore begged that he would state clearly what he was to do in order to have peace.” The Roman consul replied that “What he had to say was simple and obvious: it was to bid him evacuate Greece entirely of his men; restore the prisoners and deserters in his hands to

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Chris, a pureblooded Greek said

        their several states, hand over to the Romans those parts of Illyricum of which he had

        become possessed since the peace of Epirus; and, similarly, to restore to Ptolemy all the

        cities which he had taken from him since the death of Ptolemy Philopator.
        Having said this Flamininus refrained from any further speech of his own; but turning to

        the others he bade them deliver what they had been severally charged to say by those who

        sent them. And first Dionysodorus, the envoy of Attalus, took up the discourse by declaring

        that “Philip ought to restore the king’s ships which had been captured in the battle at

        Chios and their crews with them; and to restore also the temple of Aphrodite to its

        original state, as well as the Nicephorium, both of which he had destroyed.” He was

        followed by the Rhodian navarch Acesimbrotus, who demanded “That Philip should evacuate

        Peraea, which he had taken from them; withdraw his garrisons from Iasus, Bargylia, and

        Euromus; restore the Perinthians to their political union with Byzantium; and evacuate

        Sestos, Abydos, and all commercial ports and harbours in Asia.” Following the Rhodians the

        Achaeans demanded “The restoration of Corinth and Argos uninjured.” Then came the

        Aetolians, who first demanded, like the Romans, that “Philip should entirely evacuate

        Greece; and, secondly, that he should restore to them uninjured all cities formerly members

        of the Aetolian league.”» Aside from the fact that yet another Philip is doing havoc in

        Greece AGAIN, he cannot very well entirely evacuate Greece of his troops if Macedonia is in

        Greece. ‘evacuate the other poleis’, yes, ‘evacuate Greece’, no.

        » For at the time when Onomarchus and Philomelus, in defiance of religion and law seized

        Delphi and made themselves masters of the treasury of the god, who is there among you who

        does not know that they collected such a mighty force as no Greek dared any longer face?

        Nay, along with this violation of religion, they were within an ace of becoming lords of

        all Greece also. At that crisis Philip volunteered his assistance; destroyed the tyrants,

        secured the temple » And inserted himself into the Ampictyony by hook or crook. ‘No

        Greek dared’. Philip did. Ta Efkolos….
        » That the Macedonian supremacy, men of Sparta, was the beginning of slavery to the Greeks,

        I am persuaded that no one will venture to deny; and you may satisfy yourselves by looking

        at it thus. There was a league of Greeks living in the parts towards Thrace who were

        colonists from Athens and Chalcis, of which the most conspicuous and powerful was the city

        of Olynthus. Having enslaved and made an example of this town, Philip not only became

        master of the Thraceward cities, but reduced Thessaly also to his authority by the terror

        which he had thus set up. Not long after this he conquered the Athenians in a pitched

        battle, and used his success with magnanimity, not from any wish to benefit the Athenians—

        far from it, but in order that his favourable treatment of them might induce the other

        states to submit to him voluntarily. The reputation of your city was still such that it

        seemed likely, that, if a proper opportunity arose, it would recover its supremacy in

        Greece. Accordingly, without waiting for any but the slightest pretext, Philip came with

        his army and cut down everything standing in your fields, and destroyed the houses with

        fire. And at last, after destroying towns and open country alike, he assigned part of your

        territory to the Argives, part to Tegea and Megalopolis, and part to the Messenians:

        determined to benefit every people in spite of all justice, on the sole condition of their

        injuring you. Alexander succeeded Philip on the throne, and how he destroyed Thebes,

        because he thought that it contained a spark of Hellenic life, however small, you all I

        think know well. And why need I speak in detail of how the successors of this king have

        treated the Greeks? For surely there is no man living, so uninterested in public affairs,

        as not to have heard how Antipater in his victory at Lamia treated the unhappy Athenians,

        as well as the other Greeks and how he went so far in violence and brutality as to

        institute man-hunters, and send them to the various cities to catch all who had ever spoken

        against, or in any way annoyed, the royal family of Macedonia: of whom some were dragged by

        force from the temples, and others from the very altars, and put to death with torture, and

        others who escaped were forced to leave Greece entirely; nor had they any refuge save the

        Aetolian nation alone. For the Aetolians were the only people in Greece who withstood

        Antipater in behalf of those unjustly defrauded of safety to their lives: they alone faced

        the invasion of Brennus and his barbarian army and they alone came to your aid when called

        upon, with a determination to assist you in regaining your ancestral supremacy in Greece»

        Never mind how we have all Greece again, not the rest of Greece. This is a level no polis

        of Greece ever stooped to or for so long.

        **********************************************
        some non-Greek ancient sources also
        **********************************************
        QUINTUS CURTIUS RUFUS
        » It was unanimously agreed, that Philotas should be forced by torture to expose his

        confederates. Dismissing, the king enjoined, all the council to secrecy. He gave public

        orders for the army to decamp the next day, as though that had been the subject of

        deliberation. He invited Philotas to the last banquet of which he was to partake, and had

        the heart not only to sup, but to converse familiarly with the man whom he had

        condemned…. By order, Philotas was then brought forth, with his hands pinioned at his

        back, and an old veil over his face. The soldiers were perceptibly moved at his deplorable

        appearance…. The king, turning to him, said: «The Macedonians are to be your judges. I

        ask, whether you intend to use their native language?» Philotas answered: «Besides the

        Macedonians, there are great numbers present, who I believe will understand me more

        readily, if I use the same language in which yourself spoke, for no other reason, I

        apprehend, than that it was more intelligible to the majority.» ‘Mark,’ cries the king, how

        Philotas rejects his country’s lanuage, disdained only by himself. But let him adopt ‘what

        tongue he pleases, so you remember that ‘he equally abhors our manners and our speech.’ And

        thus Alexander retired…. Alexander, returning into the council of the army, adjourned it

        to the next day, either that Philotas might be racked in prison, or that all the

        circumstances might be otherwise penetrated. Although night was approaching, the king

        convened his friends. Most of them proposed, that Philotas should be stoned to death,

        according to the Macedonian custom: but Hephaestion, Craterus, and Coenos, contended, that

        the truth ought to be wrung from him by torture and the others came over to their opinion.

        » By this point there are at least as many Greeks in Alexander’s army as his own.

        Macedonian language, not Greek, though bilingual, the later they disdain. Macedonian

        (barbaric) customs not Greek. good for us

        » Alexander….. began to concert in what manner he should take upon him celestial honours.

        Not satisfied to be styled, he was desirous that man- kind should believe that he was

        Jupiter’s son; as though he had the same authority over their minds, as over their tongues.

        He required the Macedonians, therefore, to salute him as worshippers, prostrating

        themselves on the ground, in the manner of the Persians. To stimulate his prurient pride,

        adulation was not wanting, the perpetual bane of kings, which ruins more than the fiercest

        hostility. The Macedonians are to be exculpated, for none of them could endure to swerve

        from their national customs: but the Greeks in the king’s train, sullied the profession of

        the liberal arts by corrupt manners…. Hercules and Bacchus, with Castor and Pollux, would

        give way to the new deity. On a festival, the king, therefore, had a banquet prepared with

        every gorgeous display: to which were invited the chief of his friends, Macedonians and

        Greeks, with his nobles.» Again, Greeks and Macedonians: different people with different

        customs….

        » said the king to the assembly … I know why thou wiliest me to introduce thy

        Callisthenes…. in order that he might here repeat the same scandalous things which thou,

        having fresh learned, hast been reciting before this assembly. Had he been a Macedonian,

        the worthy tutor had been brought in with his pupil: but an Olynthian is excluded from the

        privilege. After this speech, Alexander dismissed the council; and caused the condemned to

        be delivered to the other members of the band, who, to prove their allegiance, inflicted on

        the criminals a cruelly protracted execution. Callisthenes also died under torture: He was

        innocent of the conspiracy; but he was not fitted, for a court, by the disposition of a

        flatterer. No homicide excited in the Greeks stronger disaffection toward Alexander,

        inasmuch as Callisthenes possessed the highest probity and learning; by him, Alexander was

        reconciled to life, when, having slain Clitus, he would have destroyed himself by

        abstinence. The king did not simply kill the philosopher without a trial, but tortured him.

        His cruelty was succeeded too late by penitence.» Not only is Alexander a cruel tyrant but

        under him a Macedonian could speak in his own defense (for all the help it was to

        Philotas). A Greek however respected could not even testify at his own trial. Now are we

        to say Macedonians considered themselves Greek????
        » Among the company, was Dioxippus the Athenian, … Corrhagus, a Macedonian, already

        inebriated, concluded similar scurrilities with a challenge: «If thou «be a man, fight me

        tomorrow with the sword… On the following day, each more eagerly demanding the trial, the

        king, because he could not deter them, suffered the appointed meeting. An imposing

        concourse of the military were spectators; including the Greeks, who took part with

        Dioxippus. The Macedonian had taken the regular arms; holding with his left hand a brazen

        shield and the pike called sarissa… Dioxippus, by a close embrace, prevented him; and,

        supplanting his feet, drove him to the ground. Having snatched his sword, he stood with his

        foot on his neck, his club lifted to crush the vanquished champion, if he be not prevented

        by the king. The event of this exhibition was, not only to the Macedonians, but to

        Alexander, mortifying; chiefly because the Barbarians were pre sent; as he feared that the

        blazoned valor of the Macedonians would sink into derision. Hence the royal ear was open to

        the accusations of the envious…. Dioxippus could not endure glances from so many

        concurring eyes, by which he was marked out as a thief. After he had withdrawn from the

        entertainment, having written a letter to the king, he fell by his own sword.» First what

        kind of Dori is a Sarissa? Second, the Greeks rooted for Dioxippus, and the Macedonians

        couldn’t stand that the Greek won and harassed him to death One people, huh? Sort of

        reminds me how mad Hitler was when some Germans lost an Olympic mach to Greeks.
        » The kings of Macedon were accustomed thus to purify the troops. At the extremities of the

        field into which the army was to be led, the inwards of a bitch, cut in two, were de-

        posited by each party. In the intermediate space ranged all the forces, the cavalry on one

        side, the phalanx on the other» Oh right the Ancient Greeks cut dogs in half all the

        time….

        **************************************************
        LIVY
        » Philip himself, moved by a desire of enlarging his dominions, although he had suffered

        nothing whatever at the hands of the Romans, sent an embassy, the chief of which was

        Xenophanes, to Hannibal in Italy, proposing to aid him in Italy if he would promise to

        assist him in the subjugation of Greece.» Greece, not the rest of Greece. Enough said

        » decreed that all the Greek cities that had been under Philip’s rule should be free, and

        that he should withdraw his garrisons from them before the next celebration of the Isthmian

        games …. These conditions were added by the Senate and Philip accepted them all, by which

        it was made plain that those named by Flamininus were much too lenient. They sent to him as

        counsellors ten men (as was customary at the end of a war), with whose aid he should

        regulate the new acquisitions.
        When he had arranged these things with them he went to the Isthmian games, and, the stadium

        being full of people, he commanded silence by trumpet and directed the herald to make this

        proclamation, «The Roman people and Senate, and Flamininus, their general, having

        vanquished the Macedonians and Philip, their king, order that Greece shall be free from

        foreign garrisons, not subject to tribute, and shall live under her own customs and laws.»

        Thereupon there was great shouting and rejoicing and a scene of rapturous tumult; and

        groups here and there called the herald back in order that he might repeat his words for

        them.» Philip is made to remove his troops from Greece and….Greece shall be free from

        FOREIGN garrisons.

        «Then Antiochus went down to the Hellespont and crossed over to Chersonesus and possessed

        himself of a large part of Thrace by conquest or surrender. He freed the Greeks who were

        under subjection to the Thracians» Thracians vs Greeks

        «But the general concern was not so much for the Aetolians, who were more warlike than the

        rest of the Greeks, as for the liberty of Greece, which would be seriously endangered if

        Philip and his kingdom took an active part in Greek politics.» The politics of Greece, not

        the rest of Greece. Enough said

        » That around all these temples Philip had scattered his destructive flames, and left the

        images of the gods lying scorched and mutilated among the prostrated pillars of their

        fanes. Such as he had rendered the country of Attica, formerly opulent and adorned, such,

        if he were suffered, would he render Aetolia and the whole of Greece. That the mutilation

        of their own city, also, would have been similar, if the Romans had not come to its relief:

        for he had shown the same wicked rage against the gods who are the guardians of the city,

        and Minerva who presides over the citadel; the same against the temple of Ceres at Eleusis;

        the same against Jupiter and Minerva at Piraeus. In a word, having been repelled by force

        of arms, not only from their temples, but even from their walls, he had vented his fury on

        those sacred edifices which were protected by religion alone…….Then the Roman legate

        spoke as follows: «The Macedonians and then the Athenians have compelled me to alter

        entirely the address I was going to make. I came to protest against Philip’s wrongful

        action against all those cities of our allies, but the Macedonians by the charges they have

        brought against Rome have made me a defendant rather than an accuser. The Athenians, again,

        by their recital of his impious and inhuman crimes against the gods above and those below,

        have left nothing more for me or for any one else to bring up against him. Consider that

        the same things have been said by the inhabitants of Chios and Abydos, by the Aeneans, the

        Maronites, the Thasians, by the natives of Paros and Samos, of Larissa and Messene, and by

        the people over there in Achaia, and that those upon whom he was able to inflict most

        injury have made the gravest and most serious charges…. With respect to the charges

        against Philip-the bloodshed in his own family, the murders of his kinsmen and friends, his

        lust almost more inhuman than his cruelty-you who live nearest to Macedonia know most about

        them.» Enough said. Respect for the Greek Gods? Bull.

        » Amynander briefly stated his view, which was that the terms should be such that Greece

        should be sufficiently strong, even in the absence of the Romans, to protect her liberty

        and prevent the peace from being broken. The Aetolians spoke in a more vindictive tone…

        they went on to assure him that he was totally mistaken if he supposed that he would leave

        either peace with Rome or liberty for Greece on a sure basis unless Philip were either put

        to death or expelled from his kingdom. Either of these alternatives was easy for him if he

        chose to make full use of his victory. Quinctius replied that … You think that kings of

        Macedon are a danger to the liberties of Greece. If that nation and kingdom were swept

        away, Thracians, Illyrians, Gauls, savage and barbarous tribes, would pour into Macedonia

        and then into Greece. Do not, by removing the danger closest to you, open the door to

        greater and more serious ones.» Here he was interrupted by Phaeneas, the president of the

        Aetolian league, who solemnly declared amid great excitement that if Philip escaped then,

        he would soon prove a still more dangerous enemy.» Macedonians and Thracians are not

        Greek. Which is worse is debated.

        «Then indeed the Athenian people, whose hatred for Philip had long been restrained by fear,

        in view of the prospect of aid at hand, gave full vent to their anger. … They

        immediately proposed and the people passed a motion that all statues of Philip, all

        representations of him, and their inscriptions, and also those of his ancestors, male and

        female, should be removed and done away with, that all the feast-days, sacred observances

        and priesthoods which had been established in honor of him or his ancestors should be

        abolished; even the places in which any memorials or inscriptions in his honor had been

        set up should be accursed, and that it should not be lawful to place or dedicate in them

        thereafter anything that could lawfully be placed or dedicated in any unpolluted spot; the

        public priests, as often as they offered prayers on behalf of the people of Athens and

        their allies, their armies and fleets, should so often curse and execrate Philip, his

        children and his kingdom, his military and naval forces, and the whole race and name of the

        Macedonians.» I never heard them declare a Spartan or the Spartans in whole CURSED.

        ************************************************
        JOSEPHUS
        «These Egyptians, therefore, were the authors of these troubles, who not having the

        constancy of Macedonians, nor the prudence of Greeks, indulged all of them the evil manners

        of the Egyptians» Macedonians not Greeks again.
        «how much harder is to the Greeks, who were esteemed the noblest of all people under sun?

        These, although they inhabit a large country, are in subjection to six bundles of Roman

        rods. It is the same case with the Macedonians, who have juster reason to claim their

        liberty then you have.» And again, enough said.

        ***********************************************************
        JUSTIN
        «By which means it came to pass, that during the absence of exertion on the part of the

        Greeks, the name of the Macedonians, previously mean and obscure, rose into notice; and

        Philip, who had been kept three years as a hostage at Thebes, and had been imbued with the

        virtues of Epaminondas and Pelopidas, imposed the power of Macedonia, like a yoke of

        bondage, upon the necks of Greece and Asia» Macedonians are not Greeks, they brought a

        ZYGO not unity, and if the hostage is true, is that where Philip got the Argive descent

        thing?

        «Alexander, at the very beginning of his reign, purchased peace from the Illyrians with a

        sum of money, giving his brother Philip to them as a hostage.» blech.
        «WHEN Philip had once come into Greece, allured by the plunder of a few cities, and had

        formed an opinion, from the spoil of such towns as were of less note, how great must be the

        riches of all its cities put together, he resolved to make war upon the whole of Greece.»

        If Macedonia is part of Greece, he didnt come into Greece, he always was in it. greedy…
        «he made war upon the Athenians, of which he had long dissembled his intention. The Thebans

        espoused their cause, fearing that if the Athenians were conquered, the war, like a fire in

        the neighborhood, would spread to them. An alliance being accordingly made between the two

        cities, which were just before3 at violent enmity with each other, they wearied Greece with

        embassies, stating that “they thought the common enemy should be repelled by their common

        strength, for that Philip would not rest, if his first attempts succeeded, until he had

        subjugated all Greece.” …A battle being brought on, though the Athenians were far

        superior in number of soldiers, they were conquered by the valour of the Macedonians, which

        was invigorated by constant service in the field. They were not, however, in defeat,

        unmindful of their ancient valour; for, falling with wounds in front, they all covered the

        places which they had been charged by their leaders to defend, with their dead bodies. This

        day put an end to the glorious sovereignty and ancient liberty of all Greece… War being

        at an end in Greece, Philip directed deputies from all the states to be summoned to

        Corinth, to settle the condition of affairs. Here he fixed terms of peace for the whole of

        Greece, according to the merits of each city; and chose from them all a council, to form a

        senate as it were for the country. But the Lacedaemonians, standing alone, showed contempt

        alike for the terms and the king; regarding the state of things, which had not been agreed

        upon by the cities themselves, but forced upon them by a conqueror, as a state, not of

        peace, but of slavery. The number of troops to be furnished by each state was then

        determined, whether the king, in case of being attacked, was to be supported by their

        united force, or whether war was to be made on any other power under him as their general.

        In all these preparations for war it was not to be doubted that the kingdom of Persia was

        the object in view. The sum of the force was two hundred thousand infantry and fifteen

        thousand cavalry. Exclusive of this number there was also the army of Macedonia, and the

        adjacent barbarians of the conquered nations. »
        Macedonian troops are not counted among the blood tax Philip exacted from Greece just like

        the ADJACENT BARBARIANS are not. His victory is SLAVERY TO ALL GREECE, and her men his

        puppets.
        «To Philip succeeded his son Alexander… The father would dissemble his resentment, and

        often subdue it; when the son was provoked, there was neither delay nor bounds to his

        vengeance. … A battle often sent away Philip wounded; Alexander often left a banquet

        stained with the blood of his companions. The one wished to reign with his friends, the

        other to reign over them. The one preferred to be loved, the other to be feared.» Im sure

        the Greeks breathed relief…. NOT!
        «Such an arrangement being made, Antipater was appointed governor of Macedonia and Greece;

        the charge of the royal treasure was given to Craterus;» Enough said.
        «AFTER the death of Pyrrhus, there were great warlike commotions, not only in Macedonia,

        but in Asia and Greece» Greece, not the rest of Greece. Enough said

        ***************************************************

        I WILL gladly defend THE GREEKNESS OF MACEDONIA if IT IS INDEED HISTORICAL. PERSONALLY I

        WANT TO. HOWEVER EVERY ANCIENT SOURCE I CAN FIND DISAGREES.

        I will not lie just cause you have slandered me and threatened to rape and kill me. No

        GREEK runs and hides from barbarous thugs. NOR DO WE NEED TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLES’ HISTORY,

        WHEN WE HAVE SO MUCH AWESOME HISTORY OF OUR OWN.

        FINALLY —JUST TO CLARIFY…

        THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE NAMING RIGHTS. IF MACEDONIA WAS GREEK, AS FAS AS IM CONCERNED,

        NO, THEY DO NOT GET TO USE THE NAME. FINIS. AND IF THEY DONT LIKE IT, F THEM.

        THE ISSUE IS THAT AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT NEVER WAS. I WOULD LOVE FOR THIS TO BE PROVED

        WRONG. SOMETHING YOU CAN ONLY DO WITH AT LEAST AS MUCH IN ANCIENT SOURCES THAT STATE THE

        OPPOSITE.

        TO DATE, YOU HAVE DENIED MY GREEK IDENTITY BECAUSE IT SUITS YOU — JUST SO YOU KNOW,

        BUDDIES, IM PURER-BLOODED GREEK THAN A FEW OF YOU, AND MY KIDS WILL BE GREEK ON BOTH SIDES

        TOO-

        AND ALL YOU PRODUCE IS SLANDER, ACCUSATIONS, THREATS OF RAPE VIOLENCE AND DEATH IF I DONT

        SHUT UP AND STOP STUDYING, A PERFECTLY USELESS UNSOURCED BLOG, AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT

        EVEN TRIES TO PROVE ANYTHING.

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Aκέλας said

        Ι agree! …We can give to the Skopians three letters and a name:-Mac-Donald’s!..

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Chris He A Real Monkeydonian And Not A Greek said

        Here I have a video to prove it.

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Chris He A Real Monkeydonian And Not A Greek said

        Μου αρέσει!

    • ιστορική αλήθεια said

      «ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὑπὲρ Φιλίππου καὶ ὧν ἐκεῖνος πράττει νῦν, οὐχ οὕτως ἔχουσιν, οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ᾽ ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι. » (Δημοσθένης)

      Μου αρέσει!

      • Τι θελεις να πεις ; μπορεις να μας το αναλυσεις λιγο ;

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Η ερωτηση ειναι για τον chris .

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Aκέλας said

        M

        Μου αρέσει!

      • Aκέλας said

        …μακακίες Πάνο!…Φυσικά ο Δημοσθένης σαν Συγγραφεύς των «Φιλιππικών»,ξεχείλιζε από μίσος για τους Μακεδόνες σαν»Δημοκράτης» που ήταν ,»ΞΕΧΝΌΝΤΑΣ» ότι η Αθήνα σώθηκε από τον παπού ΤΟΥ Μ.Αλεξάνδρου .Αλέξανδρο του Α΄,ΠΟΥ αν και απεσταλμένος από τους Πέρσες να τάξει χίλια μύρια «καλουδια»,μυστικά τους ειδοποίησε να μην κάνουν καμιά μακακία τέτοιου είδους, γιατί ΑΛΛΟΙ ήταν οι σκοποί του!-Φυσικά ΚΑΙ ΤΌΤΕ όπως και ΣΗΜΕΡΑ,υπήρχαν οι ψοφοδεείς τους οποίους ο δήμος εκτέλεσε,ΑΦΟΎ ΠΉΡΕ ΤΗΝ απόφαση να ΠΟΛΕΜΗΣΕΙ!…Ο Δημοσθένης που είχε υπερβεί εαυτόν σε μπόχα κατά των Μακεδόνων αυτοκτόνησε για να προλάβει δημόσια εκτέλεση!

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    • τις said

      Chris,μπορεις να μας κλασεις ενα κιλο αρχ……α γιατι εχουν φαγουρα;

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    • Chris He Is Bulgaro-Slavian From VARDARKA And Not A GREEK said

      Despite all the historical and archaeological evidence that prove prove the Greek identity of the Ancient Macedonians the Vardarkians copied the name «MACEDONIA» and based on that forgery they claim Alexander the Great as well???
      Ποτε ρε βλημα Chris θα γραψεις και κατι αλλο, εκτος απο της μπουρδες που επαναλαμβανεις εδω στην Ολυμπια, στα ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ ρε βλαμμενο την γλωσσα του Μ. Αλεξανδρου, και οχι σε καποια διαλεκτο που ειναι τα εγγλεζικα?

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  2. βασιλης said

    προχτες επιασα λαυρακι……………………..ειναι ο ινστρουχταρας απ το vmro και ο δημοσιογραφος βαλτος και αυτος και αναλυουν το συλαλλητηριο της σαλονικης………………………..αρχιζει ο δημοσιαγραφος να σηκωνει τους τονους για το ποιος φταιει που δεν εγιναν αναλογα συλλαλητηρια τα σκοπια και στην διασπορα…………………σε καποια φαση τα παιρνει ο ινστρουχταρας και λεει στο 13 και κατι λεπτα………………δεν ειμαι εγω υπευθηνος αλλα η ΜΚΟ makedonium για τα συλλαλητηρια και την προπαγανδα της διασπορας……………….http://www.macedonium.org/Macedonium.aspx?jazik=2………………………………να μας πουν ο φιλης.ο κυριτσης………..ο αλλος ο μπαγλαμας αμα υπαρχει καποια αλλη ΜΚΟ που τους γεμιζει την τσεπη με σκοπιανα δηναρια…………………………….

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    • ιστορική αλήθεια said

      «ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὑπὲρ Φιλίππου καὶ ὧν ἐκεῖνος πράττει νῦν, οὐχ οὕτως ἔχουσιν, οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ᾽ ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι. » (Δημοσθένης)

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    • Ελλάς=Μακεδονία=Ελλάς said

      Τι να σου πεί ο Φίλης. Η γνώμη του δεν μετρά. Είναι επιστήμονας με ειδικότητα επι των θεμάτων που ομιλεί. Η μόνο κράζει μεταφέροντας αυτά που λένε τα αφεντικά του. Να μας δείξει πρώτα κανα πτυχίο με καμμιά ειδικότητα επι των θεμάτων που έχει το θράσος να εκφαίρει γνώμη και να κάνει διαλογική συζήτηση. Η Ελλάδα καταρρέει απο την αναξιοκρατία! Υπάρχουν χιλιάδες Ελληνες με 2 και 3 πτυχία και πήρε ο Φίλης το Υ.Π. Με τι προσόντα? Με το αξιοκρατικό πτυχίο της Αυγής και του Σύριζα?

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    • τις said

      Ειναι να γελά κανεις με το θράσος να θελουν να λενε οτι αυτη η γλωσσα εχει να κανει με την μακεδονια,ουτε χρειαζεται αντιλογος μονο γελιο καταμουτρα.

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  3. Ελλάς=Μακεδονία=Ελλάς said

    είστε καλά? Υπάρχει θέμα προς συζήτηση για την Ελληνικότητα του Μ. Αλεξάνδρου? Η επειδή οι Σκοπιανοί ζούνε την πλάνη τους? Τους προσγειώνει η ίδια η ιστορία, τα ιερά χώματα της Ελλάς, το φωνάζουν οι πέτρες και τα μνημία. Δεν χρειάζεται να μιλούμε εμείς ούτε καν να μπαίνουμε σε διάλογο με φιλοσκοπιανούς ανθέλληνες. Μόνο ειρωνικά, προσβλητικά, αφού είναι τόσο φιλάρπαγες και κλέφτες. Είναι μόνο για να τους λύπασε ή να τους βαράς. Αξιολύπητοι Σλάβοι παραπλανημένοι, με μυαλά ποτισμένα με κλεμμένα όνειρα θερινής νυκτός. Είναι για φτύσιμο πιο πολύ οι δικοί μας δοσίλογοι.

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  4. Panos Diakos said

    http://pyli-apokalypseis.com/greece/item/1098-diasimos-amerikanos-kathigitis-kseskepazei-tous-plastografous

    απλα.

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